Biting the hand the feeds you...

...selling more than the client asked for

[Gibble]

I've got a potential client. As I'm still trying to build up a cient base, I don't want to drive anyone away.

Anyhow, this person had their site programmed, was in the middle of having it redone, the developer bailed, the sites a mess, and asked if I could get his pricing right (the prices need to all be changed)

Anyhow...while browsing the code, and trying to follow the convoluted file structure (or lack of!) I'm realizing, this client really needs their site redone. Properly...this code is horrid.

Basically, I want to help him get his site running with the proper prices, which means wading through the mess, and fixing it up.

But, how do you also approach them about a rewrite? How do you successfully make them 'buy in'?

Any tips?

[MatthewHSE]

No experience in dealing with clients, but what I would probably do, based on your description, is get in and do the changes they are hiring you to do. It sounds like that much at least won't really involve working with their code, or doing work that you'll have to re-do later if they decide they want things cleaned up. Once you've done their requested changes, you could say something like, "Oh, by the way, I noticed that the coding in there is really messy. You'd get better performance if I cleaned that up for you, which I can do for just $X." They already have bad experience with the previous webmaster, so they probably won't hesitate to take your word for it that he did things wrong (particularly if they are pleased with what you do for them). Not that you want to trash-talk about your predecessor on the job - that's always unprofessional - but respectfully pointing out some of the problems may just show you take an interest in your clients and the work you do for them.

Like I said, I don't have any experience dealing with clients. But this is the approach that makes most sense to me. I accept no responsibility if you follow this advice and lose the job! ;)

[sharbel]

I've dealt with this before and believe me you have to approach it carefully. On one hand, the client can respond thinking that you are great and looking out for them. On the other hand, you can get a client who feels you are trying to inflate the project by saying the other guy was a 'horrid' programmer.. leading them not to trust you.

The way I approach it is I when I develop my quote, I actually do two quotes. One for me to fix and put bandages on the half developed site. The other quote is for a brand new project.

A lot of times, you will spend more time trying to figure out and fix what the heck some hack coded up. A fresh start is sometimes the best approach..

[Automan Empire]

Sharbel, that's good advice to provide two estimates. What I'd add to that is two projections of the ongoing costs of working with a buggy, difficult website Vs starting fresh with more efficient code over the course of a year or two. This is framing the proposal in a way that a businessperson can understand regardless of their ability to discern good code from bad.
The initial cost of starting fresh may be higher; in some applications with many ongoing changes the client may realize savings due to streamlining. However, if they don't intend to make many running changes to the site, it may not make economic sense to start from scratch if what they have works okay on the front end.
Give the client both options without pressure and they should appreciate it. How they choose to proceed given this choice can tell you a lot about the potential of a client and the type of work they will offer. However, they may have other websites or referrals that they feel are more worth investing in than the one at hand, so don't be too quick to globally brand someone cheap based on a single project.
(added) As an employer, I'd be foolish to hand a new hire a good client's best widget to work on first. Instead, I'll give him one of my own broken-down widgets and see what kind of job he does. The attitude matters as much as the results produced in determining what additional work to give the person.
Sometimes business relationships start out humbly and grow, other times they stay lame and one party must cut loose. Whether client or service provider, kissing lots of frogs is part of the game, especially while establishing oneself in the industry.

[rocknbil]

It's actually pretty simple.

Here's the deal. This site has some problems, I can explain them if you want. I can make the changes with the site as it is and yes, it's only going to cost you XX. Over time, however, repetitively working around these difficulties is going to cost you more in the long run.

However, if I rework it right now, it may cost you XX + YY, but in the long run it's going to cost you less. As we both know, we want this to work in the long run, don't we?

Then add, "Whatever you decide, I'm here to help."