Forum Moderators: phranque
A couple of weeks ago I could receive email from these different accounts but no longer send it out. The problem first occurred on one account and we were able to fix it by not using port 25. But then I found I could not send out email through any of the other accounts either.
So I called my ISP and they said I needed to change the outgoing mail server to one of their servers instead forwarding the email to the mail servers at the web hosts. This does seem to have corrected the problem. However, they are claiming that this is the way it has always been and that I had the outgoing mail servers set up wrong. They said the problem was that I just didn't understand how things are supposed to work.
While I'm far from being a whiz at email servers, I find it hard to believe that they just didn't change some settings at the ISP somewhere. I've always followed the instructions exactly at the various web hosts, so that means if I'm wrong then all of the web hosts' email forwarding instructions would have been wrong, too.
My question for you guys is, if my outgoing mail was working fine using the various web hosts servers for outgoing email for years then stopped working, doesn't that mean they changed something at the ISP and didn't let customers know in advance?
I suspect they did and are taking a "blame the victim" approach to cover things up.
Your ISP may not have changed things, but your other accounts may have, and it is just now affecting you.
Also, many ISP's are blocking outgoing SMTP to anywhere but their own SMTP servers for anti-spam reasons. It's possible that your ISP, or their upstream ISP, has done this, and that technical support just didn't know about it, or that the technical support person you talked to is not aware that it *hasn't* always been this way.
The thing about changing the outgoing mail server to their mail server does sound like *someone* made a change, but it doesn't necessarily have to be your ISP that did it, as it could be any one of the other accounts' servers. Using the mail server of whoever you're connected to in order to send mail is a pretty standard requirement these days.
If someone told me I "just didn't understand how it was supposed to work," I believe I'd insist that a supervisor or manager explain it to me, though. Particularly, the bit about why it worked until now if I was doing it wrong. That kind of condescending attitude irritates the living daylights out of me.
JK
Your ISP may not have changed things, but your other accounts may have, and it is just now affecting you.
There are several major web hosting places where I have email forwarding and I stopped being able to send out email from all of them at the same time with the exact same error message, so that's why I don't think the problem was with any of the hosting companies. The odds of them all making separate changes that would impact my email at the same time that would cause me to get the same error message seem close to zero.
Also, many ISP's are blocking outgoing SMTP to anywhere but their own SMTP servers for anti-spam reasons.
I think this would provide a logical explanation for things and I understand ISPs wanting to do this.
My issue is the lack of advance warning if that is what happened. When I asked who I could escalate this issue with at the ISP I was told the only person I was allowed to talk to was her (the tech support person)!
When I asked who I could escalate this issue with at the ISP I was told the only person I was allowed to talk to was her (the tech support person)!
Um ... geez.
I'd look for another ISP.
Or I'd call back and keep trying to find a supervisor.
I didn't realize it had changed everywhere at once -- the way I read your first post, it sounded like one account. In that case, yes, I agree with you that it looks like a change at your ISP.
I can sympathize with you for being mad about the lack of warning, but also, on behalf of the ISPs of the world and to play devil's advocate, I'd like to just say this. If you are an ISP, and you're making a change to your mail server that is going to affect probably a small minority of your customers, it's considered by many (particularly smaller to mid-size ISP's who have a limited support base) to be a really bad idea to send out a warning and many ISP's will NOT do it for something like this.
Why?
Firstly, most people *do* have their outgoing mail server set to their ISP's mail server.
Secondly, on something like this, the minority who will be affected are generally in the more tech-savvy group and will either figure out what happened and change their settings on their own, or will call and get it changed.
This results in very low technical support costs for a change of this nature.
If you warn people, however, you will get about 80% of the people that will NOT be affected calling you because suddenly their ice cream is going melty in the freezer, and they're certain that it's because of the change to outgoing SMTP settings and it costs you tons of money and time in unnecessary technical support calls.
Meanwhile, the people that it will affect will quietly change their settings, just as if you hadn't sent out the warning.
If you don't warn people, you, as the ISP, will tick off some of the aforementioned tech-savvy customers (such as yourself), and may lose a few of them. Meanwhile, the majority happily rolls along as usual, support costs are down, and overall, it's often considered a better ROI in many circumstances to not give advance warning of these sorts of things.
I'm not saying this to excuse them, I'm just saying that I've seen it happen both ways (if you warn people and if you don't) and it's a lose-lose situation.
JK
I didn't realize it had changed everywhere at once -- the way I read your first post, it sounded like one account
I noticed the problem only at one account at first. So I spent a lot of time on just that account checking my Norton settings, reviewing their email documentation, contacting their tech support, etc. before I realized it was a problem with all of the hosting accounts, of course then I knew it was probably at the ISP level.
I'd look for another ISP.Or I'd call back and keep trying to find a supervisor.
The ISP is a cable company so there are not a lot of great alternatives. However, from reading the fine print within the fine print located within a PDF doument downloaded from their company web site, I have actually now been able to locate an official customer complaint procedure. :)
Thanks for all of the info and insights, Jollyk.
I've worked in the ISP business, so I've seen it from both ends, unfortunately. I used to strongly advocate for warning people of changes, but I did have to admit that it really wasn't cost-effective to do so most of the time.
The only time it worked out well was when we took away everyone's static IP address. Instead of telling everyone they would no longer have a static IP, we said something like, "We're going to be giving all our accounts new, dynamic IP addresses! If, for some reason, you feel you need your old, static IP address, please let us know before blah blah date."
In that case, the only people who emailed us were the tech-savvy people who knew what a static IP was, and knew they needed it. Everyone else was thrilled with their new, shiny, DYNAMIC IP and was happy to get rid of their old, boring, static IP.
I guess it's all in how you "spin" it, eh?
heheh
JK
But when customers then call in, to blame them for problems caused by the changes and then to refuse to give out the official customer complaint number is a bit over the top.
Anyway, I've also found out that since they are a cable company beside complaining to their headquarters I can also complain to the city franchising authority about service problems (which is probably what they didn't want me to find out.)
But when customers then call in, to blame them for problems caused by the changes and then to refuse to give out the official customer complaint number is a bit over the top.
Yes, I agree, that's just wrong. Unfortunately, it does seem to happen a lot when you get tech support who don't know a lot about the way stuff works themselves, yet think they're obviously smarter than any mere customer.
People like that did not last long at the ISP I worked for, at least. :-)
JK
I found another company was selling broadband in the area. They were actually leasing the lines from the cable company. The sad thing is that the cable company was charging 39.99 and the other place was 34.99 for the exact same service. I moved so the cable company wouldn't get as much of my money and not have me as a customer. I also went to satellite TV. The switch only took a phone call. I kept the same equiptment and everything.
Even if it is a cable company you can jump ship and still use the same connection.
I've never heard of anyone else offering Internet cable in my vicinity at the present time. However a competing cable company is supposed to start service soon. So that will give me at least a plan B if problems like this start to occur more often with my current provider.
