Forum Moderators: phranque
Most of them don't understand that they would need at least basic programming and server administration skills, not to mention marketing, SEO and other subjects. Also I think people are confused by sensational "make money at home" infomercials on TV and spam they get in the mail.
It's especially bad when someone comes to me after they lose their job saying "well, no problem, I'm going to make money on the internet just like you" and I have to tell them "oh no you're not". They just assume I'm greedy and don't want to let them in on some secret.
Does anyone else ever deal with this problem?
From my experience it doesn't take any programming skills to do this (although I'm aware that I'd be much more successful now if I had these skills).
I don't know about that, Viva. If you're a Frontpager who never really sees or understands the underlying code, what happens when things break? What if your site needs to grow and needs a Javascript function to perform a certain task? How do you incorporate that script into your pages?
That old saying, "time is money", is so true in this thread. The time I spend giving someone free lessons (that took me years to learn) could be spent tweaking my own business, improving my own skills, or hanging out with my own family. Time is precious.
I'll bet most quality, experienced web developers will say that they are where they are today, because of a desire to learn about it and grow with it, not because they begged someone to teach them how to start a money-making site.
If someone wants to learn that badly, do what I did and learn it.
If a friend wants advice on anything 'managerial' then I'll quite happily spend whatever many hours advising them - but I wouldn't charge them - they are my friends, and as such the thought of me 'giving away' my skills for no gain wouldn't even enter my head. And I like to think this would be reciprocated by them when I need help.
I would say that there's rather a difference between advising your friends/family on topics within your expertise and working for them for free. I actually do a lot of advising, hand-holding, step-by-step walk-throughs, and even making example pages or scripts for people, all for free, and I'm happy to do it.
What I don't appreciate is being somehow expected to drop my real work (read "work that pays my bills, feeds my family, and puts a roof over our heads") in order to do free work for someone else who is not at all willing to even try to do it for himself or herself.
I don't appreciate the assumption that what I do isn't a "real job" and so I should be willing and able to drop it and work for free on someone else's pet project. I'll bet friends of MBA's don't come up and say, "Hey, can you come manage my company for free for a week while I'm on vacation?"
I think where the resentment comes in is not towards helping people out or advising them -- I'd say a good portion of people on this board do just that all the time, and for free. I think the resentment comes from a perception of being looked down on as not having a job that requires any work, and similar misconceptions about web design/development and so forth. Plus, there seems to be a sense of entitlement out there to where people really think that they are entitled to have me, free of any charge, write them custom software specific to their particular commercial needs so that they can make money off it. Things like this, I think, cause resentment and disdain for a lot of us. It doesn't mean we're unwilling to help people, it just means that some of us are resentful and fed up with certain attitudes we encounter. :-)
JK
If they don't learn any html they are finished. Most don't care to learn anything, they just want easy money.
I worked with one friend for about 2 months before he gave up...had a good idea and the time, but no motivation unless money was coming in daily.
I don't know about that, Viva. If you're a Frontpager who never really sees or understands the underlying code, what happens when things break? What if your site needs to grow and needs a Javascript function to perform a certain task? How do you incorporate that script into your pages?
My mistake. I meant you don't need to know a lot to start a website. You do need to know more in order to grow your business.
I used to give people a ... long ... answer explaining how to set up domains, build a site, basic search tips, etc. Then I realized that the best thing to say to folks is the following:
Step ONE: Go to Godaddy or another template site place and set up a simple website about a topic you know well and see how that goes.
Step TWO? I've never had anybody get past step one.
Frankly, if a person has waited this long go get in the game I think it's unlikely they'll be successful, especially with their own topic site but also difficult as an SEO or consultant.
wouldn't expect a friend with a brick and mortar business to stop what he is doing to help them launch *their* brick and mortar business
Hehe - occupational hazard there since you are more likely to get asked than Joe Roto Rooter franchisee. Cuz internet is so fun and so dang .... easy!?!
I explain that the days of the 'success story of the guy working out of his basement' ended about 5 years ago.
Then I explain that my first site cost me $16 a month. My second cost me about $600 total. Now, I won't even launch an idea/site without a minimum of TEN GRAND to throw at it.
I then offer to help them out if they're willing to go forward.
Funny thing is, they never are...
the 'success story of the guy working out of his basement' ended about 5 years ago
That is unnecessarily discouraging, and false. While the bubble of great dot-com millionaire startups popped a while ago, it is still possible to work solo in your basement and make a very decent living. Or at least a supplemental income.
What reasons do you have for wanting to scare someone away from trying?
All the time......and I encourage them all with the best advice I can supply!
Friends & family should be your "life blood"....IMHO. I'll give lots to strangers on this board for free....but, I'll give more to friends & family!
The Internet is still a great way of making a living on your own. There are risks, but they are less than a traditional "bricks & mortor" type operation.
Some of my closest family consider it too risky...that is their choice. Many others want a piece of the action..... good for them!
I only teach what I do. It requires some skill and effort, but, not a lot. If the Pizza is huge, why not share? I can't eat it all myself. Giving some to my family & friends seems to be the right thing to do.
I live in a world that is worth well over $10 billion per year in revenue. That is a big Pizza, I don't need to eat it all, I would like my friends & family to take a slice!
freinds and family are welcomed, IF they were willing to do the work themselves. Somehow, they expect me to write an email or talk to them for an hour or so, and the money would simply start flowing. They don't seem to understand how this works; it isn't always as easy as it seems.
Walkman, you are right!
Of course, even your closest family & friends need some help. We can "chat" for several hours about nonsence or we can chat for several hours about how to achieve this.
In my mind it is all "down-time" relaxation, either way. There is certainly an issue with friends & family being prepared to achieve the goal.....but, that is their choice!
They choose to come to visit me, they see how I live, they don't always appreciate what is involved, but, they want a slice of the pie.
Should I not share with them?
I only teach what I do. It requires some skill and effort, but, not a lot.
I still have to disagree with these statements about web development not requiring a lot of skill.
Being a web developer certainly requires a lot of skill and effort, and really depends on what you do. If you're a "Frontpager" who knows nothing other than Frontpage, then yes.... you can survive by it.
Anyone can add Adsense to their website and make a few dollars. But true web developers have 100 times more options based on their skills and experience.
Should friends and family have a piece of the pizza pie?
Sure, just let them slice it themselves.
That is, of course, unless you have the time, money and desire to divide it up for them.
I agree with you, they get the slice of the Pizza that they have their dibs on! It isn't that any of the Pizza is bad, but, some slices are better than others.......we've all been there in real life!
The point of the topic is to say "No" to allowing friends and family to share this pizza!
We can spend days on deciding how to cut the pizza up, BUT, does anyone really want to say no to a slice that is destined for a friend or family member?
If a friend wants advice on anything 'managerial' then I'll quite happily spend whatever many hours advising them - but I wouldn't charge them - they are my friends, and as such the thought of me 'giving away' my skills for no gain wouldn't even enter my head. And I like to think this would be reciprocated by them when I need help.
I guess this has been addressed on a previous post, but advising is different than teaching (which is basically what we have to do when someone comes to us and asks us to help them).
I've talked shop with many a people (mostly online) and swapped ideas with guys who are making thousands more than I am and with people who have some programming skills like C or Java and are trying to port that knowledge to HTML/Php/Asp, and havent seen a buck online, I think along those lines are the best 'helping out', and you know this person already has put some effort into the topic that you know your talk won't be a waste of time. You help and you get helped.
OTOH, if you're talking to someone who has zero knowledge and all they have in sights are the dollar signs, then its akin to trying to educate someone on how to build a bridge and they don't know geometry. It's that skill/ability/drive to search for knowledge that determines wether the seed you plant will come to fruition. If you don't see it, blow them off and move on, no regrets.
Twice in the past 6 yrs I've given day-long seminars after accumulating requests from folks wanting the inside scoop. I spent, I guess, about 3-4 days preparing for the first one; the second took about half the prep work. I gave them notebooks with outlines, used a little PowerPoint, and gave these people a great foundation in both theory and nuts-and-bolts. Attendance at each seminar was about 8 as I recall, and each person paid $275, which got them a nice lunch and snacks, as well. Some people were there, by their own admission, merely to "check out the options." But several were there to get their start in this avenue of business. Of all those people, one started a business that's well established (5 years now), which is making nice money for them part-time, and which they enjoy. As for the rest, absolutely zip.
I found these results both enlightening and amusing, because when I started my online business I was concerned (read, white-knuckle paranoid) that someone... anyone... would see what I was doing and "horn-in on the action." But what I've discovered is that when it comes down to taking action, and following through, the overwhelming majority of people can't be persuaded, begged or pushed into doing what it takes.
I think most people aren't hungry enough. And/or they lack the confidence to believe that they could succeed. And that's fine with me... totally their choice/s. But I do offer for your consideration that the group seminar proved to be quite an efficient way of satisfying their desire to learn as well as my desire to be remunerated for some (potentially) extremely valuable information about the whole gamut of areas in which a startup has needs. If you're going to say the same thing to ten people, tell them all at once , and cut your telling time to 1/10. And maybe actually help someone in the process.
I let one gal attend without paying up front, with the promise that once she had made her first $10,000 of clear profit, she'd send me 10%. She made no start.
Oh, and this story wouldn't be complete without noting that the teacher (as I believe is often the case) probably learned more in the process of preparing (some, merely by review), than most of the students chose to absorb.
Plus... these seminar days were simply fun.
I disagree that most people want to get rich or make easy money. Itīs the work from home/having no boss thatīs appealing.
If someone suggests, I write the content you do the coding I would say. O.k. fine, get back to me when you have 100, 250 word articles.
I think itīs mostly information overload that causes many to give up. Giving someone a 900 page html book and saying contact me when youīve learned html is cruel imo.
If you wanīt someone to learn use baby steps, donīt explain more than one html/css tag at a time.
True: some people just get really frustrated because it seems like they have to know *everything* just to get started! I generally start out with a very, very basic HTML page. No css, and only head, title, body, and maybe linebreak, h1 and bold tags. Then tell them to type in whatever they want. Maybe move up to images, and a little more. Then I'll show them how to install a pre-written CGI or PHP script: let them do it themselves, screw up, tell them what went wrong, let them fix it, etc. Send them to one of the big scripts directories and let them see what all they can use for free for their websites.
The people who really want to work at it yell, "You mean that's IT?" and get really excited about learning more and more. The people who don't say, "Can't you just do it for me and I'll give you 10% of my profits?"
I think the distinction here is as someone else said: there's a big difference between someone who wants the bucks without making an effort ("Make money while you sleep!") vs someone who really thinks there's an opportunity and is willing to put a little elbow grease into it.
All the ebooks and so forth out there assuring people that their "Awesome Money-Maker Website" will make them thousands without them having to lift a finger don't help. There is a real sense of entitlement there.
