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H tags to structure site map?

And what about H links?

         

miki99

6:02 pm on Sep 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Before I upload my latest set of mistakes....

I've been organizing my site map better, and using H3 and H4 tags for the section headings.

Some of these headings represent actual pages I'd like to link to, while others don't. Is it all right to make H headings links?

Also, is it OK to use them this way in the first place, inside a site map? Seems to me it's perfectly logical.

miki99

6:33 pm on Sep 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Think I may have partially answered my own question. Some of my H3 links just indicate a single page rather than a section, so they won't have any regular text links below them, in which case it doesn't really make sense to use H headings -- for something that isn't really a heading. It would probably constitute some kind of spamming.

Hope *I'm* making some sense.

wolfadeus

5:54 pm on Oct 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I think using H-tags for formatting about any text including sitemaps (at least I do).

You can link the text itself; if you want to make all headlines look the same regardless of whether linked or not, try to use CSS to format them into the same shape.

Best,

W.

miki99

3:17 am on Oct 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Oh, really! Thanks for your feedback. I was afraid H tags might incur some kind of penalty if they were considered overused. I'm kinda paranoid about things like that these days! Maybe I'll put the H tags back in now.

tomda

6:29 am on Oct 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I was afraid H tags might incur some kind of penalty if they were considered overused.

Yes, there is! Only use each H tag ONCE only per page (e.g. H1, H2, H3, etc.) and you will be fine.

tedster

7:16 am on Oct 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Here's how I understand the issue. It's true that there usually should only be a single H1 tag on a page. But the rest of the H tags are a different story.

Think about an outline. There is only one "main topic" that is being outlined. But there can be any number of level 2 breakouts - or under that, level 3 and so on.

What you need is a hierarchy.

H1
---H2
------H3
------H3
---H2
------H3
---------H4
---H2

...and so on. You don't jump from H2 to H4 without an H3 in between and so on. However, the only tag that is limited in terms of numbers of uses is the big boy,

wolfadeus

8:42 am on Oct 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Tedster is right, whereas I didn't read your question the way that you were asking about penalties for H-ing everything; to come back to my sitemap:

H1: "Sitemap of Widgets.com"
H2: Main navigation, sometimes linked, sometimes not, made look the same with CSS
P and BR: Individual pages and articles.

Best, W.

Tastatura

9:53 am on Oct 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I share (shared?) Tedster’s view in regards how tags should be organized, especially use of H1 tag, however I went back and re-read doc on W3C’s site - The global structure of an HTML document [w3.org] sec 7.5.5 and now I am not sure

Read this carefully:


A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it introduces

Note the "section it introduces" part – so even H1, as a heading ,introduces a section of the document and not the document itself (IMO, title rightfully should introduce a document).

In the specification there isn't a mention of any limitation for number of H1 tags in the document. Interesting note is this though:

Some people consider skipping heading levels to be bad practice. They accept H1 H2 H1 while they do not accept H1 H3 H1 since the heading level H2 is skipped.

W3C QA document [w3.org] doesn’t say anything about number of H1 tags in the doc either

Maybe all this time I have been wrongly thinking about H1 as a title for the "on-page" text. When you think about it, it makes sense even if you compare document structure to "off-line" paper.

..<title> Dogs and Cats </title>
....<H1>Dogs</H1>
.......<H2>Pit Bull</H2>
..........<H3> North American Pit Bull</H3>
......
.......<H2>Puddle</H2>
......
....<H1> Cats</H1>
.......<H2>Lion</H2>
.......<H2>House kitty</H2>

I run below code through W3C validation service and it passes


<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<HTML>

<HEAD>
<Title>My Title</Title>
</HEAD>

<BODY>

<H1> Hading 1-1 </H1>
something
<H2> Heading 2-1 </H2>
something else

<H1> Heading 1-2 </H1>
second something
<H2> Heading 2-2 </H2>
second something else

</BODY>
</HTML>

Any takers?

tedster

5:23 am on Oct 13, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



You're correct, multiple H1 tags will still validate. But they definitely can confuse the site's Information Architecture, and therefore depress/tangle up you search engine results. For example, which of the two should anchor text in backlinks be using?

If a page is really about two topics, I think I'm better off to make it two different pages. But if there are two subtopics of one main topic, and that main topic is only implicitly understood rather than explict -- then I try to explicitly create the main topic as my H1, and mke the two subtopics H2.

[edited by: tedster at 6:44 pm (utc) on Oct. 14, 2006]

miki99

5:52 pm on Oct 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



That's how I thought it worked, Ted -- a logical hierarchy of H tags, with H1 as the "King." There can only be one king, but there can be any number of princes, dukes, etc.

My concern with using H tags for the main sections of my sitemap was just that some of the H tags would have referred just to individual page links, with no list of page links below them. Something like this (it's the last 3 lines I'm worried about, as they don't seem like a proper use of "heading" tags, since they don't "head" anything):

<h1>Widgets</h1>

<h2>S-shaped</h2>
<h3>Foam</h3>
Red
Blue
Purple
<h3>Rubber</h3>
Lilac
Chartreuse
Lemon
<h2>Spherical</h2>
<h3>Foam</h3>
Indigo
Puce
<h3>Steel</h3>
<h3>Copper></h3>
<h3>Fossil Ivory</h3>

miki99

6:02 pm on Oct 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Oooops! Let me try that again.

<h1>Widgets</h1>

--<h2>S-shaped</h2>
---------<h3>Foam</h3>
----------------Red
----------------Blue
----------------Purple
---------<h3>Rubber</h3>
----------------Lilac
----------------Chartreuse
----------------Lemon
--<h2>Spherical</h2>
---------<h3>Foam</h3>
----------------Indigo
----------------Puce
---------<h3>Steel</h3>
---------<h3>Copper></h3>
---------<h3>Fossil Ivory</h3>

tedster

6:50 pm on Oct 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



It can happen sometimes that a sub-sub-category only has one member. I think what you're doing is fine, although I also try to avoid those situtation when I can -- they're just not elegant. But sometimes getting the information out there is more important than elegance.

miki99

9:26 pm on Oct 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks very much for your feedback on this, Ted. I'd removed all the lesser H tags from my sitemap, as I just wasn't sure, but I guess I'll put them all back now.

buckworks

9:36 pm on Oct 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



A simple, practical test: Would your finished page make good logical sense to a human user viewing it with styles turned off?

If yes, the search engines will probably think the structure is okay.