Do automated programs still work ?

[mike2010]

I remember like 10 years ago or so...the only real link builders were automated software programs. Which I thought eventually went out the window as google and other search engines caught on to the spammy sites sites that all these links were on.

But then I heard of 2 other programs mentioned today on another SEO forum..that some webmasters seem to use and have success with.


SEnuke x

and Scrapebox

anybody hear of these ? use them ? thoughts ?

Thanks

[Planet13]

I use scrapebox for FINDING potential link partners, but I don't use it at all for posting in blogs (or doing any posting).

It seems like it has gotten harder to use because you need to really use up a lot of proxy servers, and they seem to be getting harder and harder to find free ones.

Never used SE Nuke before. I know someone who has paid for blasts with senuke in the past and they say that strategy is pretty much ineffective now. But that's one person's opinion.

There are definitely sites ranking out there that APPEAR to have been blasted. Whether those are the links that actually propelled the site to the top of the SERPs or not is debatable.

[mike2010]

Thanks Planet. I'm interested in trying it out just once to see the results & to see how things have improved over the years. I'm not planning on 'blasting' or 'nuking' away either. Maybe that's what gets the others in trouble.

I'll work it slow and switch it around for the articles and such. Seems like an interesting concept. Alright, i'll admit the video on SEnuke home page is kinda luring me on. I checked out Scrapebox, but it looks a little more technical . Didn't know about the 'finding link partners' thing though. I might download it just for that. Soooo tired of these 'text link' companies charging like crazy for monthly link spots.

seems like in the Adult biz , you can get 'yearly' hardlink spots on several hundred legit adult sites with decent PR for only around $200 to $300 a year. Much less expensive than 'regular' sites out there.

[mike2010]

btw, i'm not understanding the need for Proxy servers.. I thought they handle that aspect, no ?

[mcskoufis]

I'm interested in trying it out just once to see the results

Even a single blast can have a very negative impact on your rankings in the long-term.

If you want to try on a domain which doesn't matter if it gets burned or not, then fine.

But doing it on your main site will leave a stain in your link profile which could spell big troubles in the future, despite seeing some sites ranking because of it (or as Planet13 says, it is not exactly sure which links are the reason for the top rankings).

[mike2010]

The way you guys make it sound like ...people download these programs & jizz all over the net with em.

Why isn't there a non-blasting approach...to do things more slowly & carefully ? I'm guessing one of those softwares should have the option, but I haven't downloaded either yet.

I DO need to find legit linking partners though for Backlinks. Planet, if you could explain more about how Scrapebox works in regards to this, that'll be great.

what i'm NOT doing is paying $50 a month to have a couple links on a PR5 - PR6 site. If there are opportunities in the adult biz that offer your link on hundreds of legit adult sites (with decent PR) for a decent yearly price, the same should be available for regular sites....somewhere.

[defanjos]

if you could explain more about how Scrapebox works in regards to this, that'll be great.

A simple example,

enter in the Harvester field the following:
intitle:"resources" "green widgets"

Choose Google
Enter some proxies
click "Start Harvesting"

This will give you a list of web sites that have "resources" in the title and are about "green widgets"

Get very familiar with all search operators and use your imagination to find thousands of possible link partners.

[mike2010]

ahh ok, thanks.

I thought it was a part of the program that directly and somewhat anonymously lets you find other webmasters that want to exchange / purchase links...instead of going through 3rd part providers like Text-Link-Ads, Linkworth, etc.

maybe a software idea for someone out there..

[Robert Charlton]

...somewhat anonymously lets you find other webmasters that want to exchange / purchase links...

Aren't link purchases the kind of thing that are impossible to keep anonymous, which is why link selling networks inevitably get busted.

[mike2010]

I'm not so sure...Google has been aware of them for years. The bigger ones at-least. In a way they almost seem to be 'accepting' of them lately.

[mike2010]

Can I get at-least 1 positive review over SEnuke X , so I can download it & try it out ?

Maybe you guys are deliberately being negative about it, so other webmasters don't spam it up even more.

Maybe it really does work, when handled correctly..

[Crush]

The smart people blast satellite sites know as tiers and build up links to these sites. This is what is dangerous all the people with vested interests telling you these automated programs work. To save you a lot of bother and research this is the proper way to do it. Even this is not everything but here goes.


1) money site ( why crap on your own doorstep, do not even think about blasting)
2) set up multiple sites on web 2 properties, wordpress tumblr etc. Add content that is not duplicate. Treat these as semi important sites
3)have an other tier below that
4) blast, blast, blast

This is really only good if you have multiple affiliate sites to promote. If you have one main site it is a lot of work and you can only link out to your money sites once or twice per site.

[Planet13]

Yes, if you WERE going to blast sites, then you WOULD want to use the method outlined by Crush above.

On the other hand...

You could try and come up with some unique, interesting content, find some people with popular sites (maybe they have lots of facebook fans or twitter followers, or blog readers), and tell THOSE people about your really cool content and hopefully they will pass that along to their followers / fans / readers.

Another variation on what Crush mentioned - but doing it in a more or less legitimate way - is to find sites that already naturally link to you (and hopefully not your competitors) and while you are out link begging different sites, suggest they link to that third-party site, too. Maybe if they DON'T link to YOUR site, then they will at least link to that third party site, which then links to yours.

(Neither SENuke or scrapebox will let you find other webmasters anonymously to buy links from them. They are more or less designed for finding blogs / forums where you can drop link spam in. When you have a blog and someone leaves a comment like: "That was a really well written article and I am looking forward to all the comments that people will certainly be leaving," and they have a usernmae like "cheap flights to destination XYZ", then you can thank SENuke / scrapebox for that link spam on your blog.)

I would google the words "senuke penalty" and see if there is much information about it. I think there is.

And finally, there seems to be a running debate (in THIS forum, anyway)as to whether spammy links really work or not. So, maybe that is why you are not getting a direct answer to whether to download SENuke or not.

[mcskoufis]

Maybe you guys are deliberately being negative about it, so other webmasters don't spam it up even more.

The problem with links is that if someone has a look at your backlink profile it is very easy to spot what methods you use to obtain backlinks. This may not hurt your site initially, not even in months.

But what happens if there is a search engine algorithm update that penalizes sites obtaining such backlinks which are very obvious they are there to game the algos.

I would definitely agree with what Crush says:

The smart people blast satellite sites know as tiers and build up links to these sites.

But still you need to be careful so you don't leave too many footprints.

[almighty monkey]

It works. I can promise you, having done it myself over and over again, it works. So long as your domain has a bit of age and genuine authority behind it, so long as you don't go from one link a week to ten thousand links a week overnight, and so long as you continue to invest in quality content and 'clean' link building, it works

But, as a strategy, it's less effective than it used to be, and some of the smartest engineers in the world will be actively trying to block it, and you. I only touch those tools if I'm looking to rank a personal project that I won't miss too much if Google slaps me out the index - I certainly would never touch it for a client who will be concerned with their brand (read; every company ever) for example.

I assume by the nature of the question you're reasonably new to SEO? My advice is learn how to get sites to rank 'properly' first, using genuine content marketing (Seriously, setting up a network of satellite sites is no easier than getting 5 guest post spots on related blogs). That is the skill that's still going to be money for you in 5 years time, not 'How to use Scrapebox'. You can always augment that with whatever exploits exist at the time.

[Planet13]

...and so long as you continue to invest in quality content and 'clean' link building, it works...

This is where the disagreement comes in :)

While I would tend to AGREE with Almighty Monkey on this point, there are several on this forum that would say that google is ignoring the blasted links and the site in question is ranking BECAUSE the SEO continued to "invest in quality content and 'clean' link building."

If you look for a thread called "Why Build Links" which is at here:

[webmasterworld.com...]

You can see a few different opinions on the effectiveness of spam links. I would specifically point out you read this post by martinibuster that starts with this:

"Could mean the barrier to entry is low...."

And this post by CainIV:

I've also seen (recently) a top competitor dropped about 25 pages (to date. My initial conclusion after studying this competitor is that the 5000 inbound unrelated links from spam blogs and auto generated comments sort of killed it for them.

To get some dissenting opinions on the value of spam links.

I would take anything said by martinibuster or CainIV VERY seriously.

[Fever]

This debate has gone on for a while... Now, if these blasting campaigns had such a huge negative impact then wouldn't everyone be blasting their compeitions sites to get their rankings lowered?

I thought the worst that could be done was the blasting have no positive and also no negative effect. Can anyone shed some light on this?

[tangor]

Long and short, there are no short cuts. Some of the discussed might give marginal benefit, but all will eventually tank. Pick your poison, short term then die, or a bit longer and die, too. No fast way to the top. No short cuts (watch a few Perry Mason in syndication to know what I mean)

As Costner uttered in that movie: "Build it and they will come."

Do that, and benefit will follow. There are no short cuts and spending money in that regard is... spending money. With lint in your pocket.

[Planet13]

I thought the worst that could be done was the blasting have no positive and also no negative effect. Can anyone shed some light on this?

I don't think that anyone knows for sure. Some people say they are just dismissed.

When I look at the backlinks of my competitors, there are obvious blasted links, yet they still rank well.

But we do know for a fact that people ARE penalized / banned from google for bad links. I've seen those sites with my own eyes. They are nowhere in the SERPs.

The only thing I can guess is that in some cases, google prefers to dismiss "obvious" bad links if they are easily spotted by the algorithm, but that they are willing to penalize sites if the links require a manual inspection to spot.

If this is true (and it's only a wild guess), then it really doesn't make sense. It's like one can build obviously spammy links and if they work, they work. And if they don't work, then there's no loss.

Now, if these blasting campaigns had such a huge negative impact then wouldn't everyone be blasting their compeitions sites to get their rankings lowered?

Others with more experience than I have said that in the past it was easier to "google bowl" a competitor, but hat it has been harder over the last two years. So maybe that is why it is harder for spammy links to actually cause a penalty?

[mike2010]

Watcha guys think about these new programs offering Forum Profile linkbacks ? I see them popping up left & right lately.

"20,000 permanent backlinks for $40" or whatever...

They basically have your Link appear on hundreds or thousands of different forums...all they do is create a forum profile with a link on that member's member profile. (that links to your site)

Of course the first thing people think is...anything automated obviously is trash. But this seems like somewhat of a new (and cheap) technique , and heard it's successful for some.

As much as people will probably reply here in 'denial' & 'disgust' , you know you guys are tempted to try it out. (or have already)

hmmm..

[Planet13]

But this seems like somewhat of a new (and cheap) technique...

Yes, to cheap, but it has been around at least a few years, so it might be hard to say that it is "new."

They basically have your Link appear on hundreds or thousands of different forums...all they do is create a forum profile with a link on that member's member profile. (that links to your site)...

Well, google will basically see a spike of hundreds or thousands of backlinks to your site in a few days. Do you think that might possibly raise a red flag to google?

Also, probably a lot of those forum profiles are blocked by robots.txt, they have a meta noindex tag, or the links are nofollowed. so there value could be nullified.

And if it does work, and you leap frog your competitors in the search results, what's to stop them from spending $40 and leap frogging you back?

I should note that I don't know whether those links will work or not. When I look at my competitotrs at the top of the SERPs, they do all have those kinds of links. But do they rank at the top of the SERPs BECAUSE of the spammy links, or in spite of the spammy links, I don't know.

[martinibuster]

But this seems like somewhat of a new (and cheap) technique

Not new. Forum profile building has been around for quite a few years now. Software to accomplish that has been around for longer. I see these kinds of links getting built and except for very niche longtail terms where the barrier to entry is somewhat low, I rarely ever see this working.

The glory days of push button link building have passed. Many of the pioneers of that kind of promotion have moved on because it stopped working. Every major push button marketer I know has moved on to more complicated routines or servicing clients. That says a lot. Some are still pushing the envelope but it's not as simple as Mongo push button. Mongo get Link. Buttons are still getting pushed but that's in the service of battling this year's algorithm not the one from six years ago.

This is not new. It is old. Very old. Now that it's burned out the software is trickling down to those on the bottom rung of Internet marketing. Do you really think it's smart to be at the tail-end of a marketing trend that is many years past it's prime?

As much as people will probably reply here in 'denial' & 'disgust'

Moral judgements are not a part of this forum. We discuss whether something works and what kind of marketer it is appropriate for.

Getting back to the topic under discussion:

Do automated programs still work ?

1. The original movers have moved on.

2. The old obsolete software has trickled down to where the marketers are "all toothless and dry haired like those hag masses of the 18th century," as Gregory Corso described the lowest level of city life. In other words, the software on offer is years and years old once it makes it to the beer-budget level.

3. Button pushing has evolved in response to the algorithm. The buttons people are pushing now has more to do with (in general, in no particular order, and leaving out specifics):

A. Automating the process of identifying link prospects
B. Contact
C. Quality research
D. Competitive intelligence
E. CRM

In other words, it's understanding the link building process and putting technology to use in scaling the process. So to answer the question, automation works, but not at the level of Mongo push button/Mongo get links. The game has changed.

[Planet13]

To add on to martinibuster's excellent post:

4) If it WERE that cheap and easy, your competitors would do the same thing, thus negating any benefit you would get.

~~~~~~~

One other thing about this:

We tend to look at the top ranking sites and try to copy what they do.

Instead, maybe we need to look at the sites that rank below us and AVOID doing what they do (if no sites rank below yours, then look at sites that can't crack, say, rank page 4 and below).

I would assume if you were to check the backlinks of sites that rank Page 4 and below you will see lots of them with forum profile backlinks, too.

[ThisIsOli]

The biggest problem with automated tools is the sites they post on. Google measures way more than page rank nowadays, and if you are posting links on sites which are article repositories filled with duplicate content, then Google will spot the quality of that site and de-value accordingly.

[Planet13]

...and if you are posting links on sites which are article repositories filled with duplicate content, then Google will spot the quality of that site and de-value accordingly.

I think it was Grouch Marx who said, "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member."

I think if you are going to post blog comments, then you need to post comments on sites that are HEAVILY moderated. The harder it is to post a comment on that site, the better.

Then post a comment that is so compelling that the blog publisher will WANT to publish your comment and link.

[mike2010]

somewhat of a weird request here..

So I downloaded the free trial version of SENuke X. I was surprised to see how thorough it is and all the different areas and programs to submit to.

I didn't nuke anywhere though, because of it's somewhat complex nature to submit to all areas...and plus I don't have a proxy.

I don't see how this program could be something Google hates as long as it's done 'thoughtfully' & 'thoroughly' and only once for each site...and never overly spammed.

So if anybody has experience & currently has the full version which is like $100 a month or more... I might be interested in submitting some of my sites. (only once each )

But I would need detailed reporting as well to make sure everything was submitted once and to all areas.

I can send payment through PayPal. PM me if interested.

thanks

** also, if there are any publications anywhere of Google specifically being against this program , post it here and i'll cancel my request/ **

[System]

The following 4 messages were cut out to new thread by martinibuster. New thread at: link_development/4414519.htm [webmasterworld.com]
12:14 pm on Feb 5, 2012 (utc -8)