Be warned before you do business with google

unfair supension of adwords account

[joobern]

The following event happened to me and is a true story. I was advertising with Google for a couple of years now without ever any problems. Then I wanted to open a further ad account for a special new marketing leg of my company, unfortunately I have many staff working on these accounts so in order to keep mistakes from happening I open a new account for each new marketing campaign / staff section I have. But all accounts are always registered under my name and paid for with my credit card. Suddenly my accounts were suspended and under investigation by Google specialists. Then suddenly they closed everything and now want to make me liable for money I don't owe them on a account which is in arrears which was never my account to begin with and has nothing to do with me whatsoever. And if I wish to continue using Adwords I need to settle this account first? This account they are speaking of has nothing to do with me? And their team of specialist investigated the whole thing and came up with the brilliant conclusion that I have to pay somebody else's debt or contact the person who made the debt in first place and try to make him settle the account prior to me being able to continue advertising? And they then said that it is sensitive information and they cannot give me any further information?

It turned out that the website URL's I wanted to market in my new account where once marketed by another company that still owes Google money. So I contacted this company, even though it is not my job to do debt collecting for Google, and asked them if they could settle. However the other company is not willing to settle these amounts since they claim that Google has shut down their accounts unfairly and that even if they did settle the account it would be of no use since Google is not willing to reopen the account again, which I understand, why pay if you getting nothing for it.

So far nothing could be done about this situation and I lost an important income stream and quite a bit of prepaid money which they are obviously not going to give back to me. They closed all my accounts even though my payment history is immaculate. I wrote it off as a very bad experience and eye opener for now. I also uninstalled Google chrome instantly thereafter since I strongly feel that this browser is a total invasion of privacy and went back to my good old Internet Explorer.

However it is my duty to warn everybody out there, think twice before you go into business with Google, they can destroy your income stream with the click of the button, and their terms and conditions actually also provide room for this. Do be very careful and trust me, don't think for a moment you can win against them.

But I am planning to take legal action. Any advice on this matter will be appreciated.

[wyweb]

But I am planning to take legal action. Any advice on this matter will be appreciated.

Get a good lawyer.

[PayMePerClick]

Or switch to a different URL for your service/product. If you advertise online in this day and age, an important step when procuring a new URL should be checking with Google first to see if there are any holds or restrictions on the domain. I'm sorry it's a bit late for you but for everyone's future reference, take heed.

[BillyS]

But I am planning to take legal action. Any advice on this matter will be appreciated.

I'd try to find a phone number and talk to a live person. I don't think Google is evil, but I do think they're very aggressive when it comes to protecting the integrity of their system.

[StoutFiles]

Taking legal action will ensure you never do business with Google again and will just cost you more time/money. By taking on an account that owes Google money, you're now liable for the money. By fighting it, Google sees you as a problem and cuts your account, as they are known for doing.

Is it fair? Of course not. Legally though, they're untouchable in this example. Your only chance is to explain the situation to someone there and hope for some understanding.

[netmeg]

First of all, you opened multiple accounts under the same name and credit card - is that allowed? I actually don't know. It wasn't at one time.

even if they did settle the account it would be of no use since Google is not willing to reopen the account again, which I understand, why pay if you getting nothing for it.

Of course, why pay for something that was already delivered (advertising) and for which you are legally liable, just because Google has decided they don't want to do further business with you? I don't mean you personally, since it sounds like that was the debt of the previous company, but the fact that you "understand" why they feel that way is rather telling.

Good luck. You're going to need it.

[willybfriendly]

By taking on an account that owes Google money, you're now liable for the money.

Not following your logic here. From the OP

It turned out that the website URL's I wanted to market in my new account where once marketed by another company that still owes Google money.

That is like being turned away by a doctor because the last person that lived at your address didn't pay his bills.

[StoutFiles]

Not following your logic here. From the OP

Bob creates an account with a URL. Account goes bad, owes Google money, so Bob runs away. Google marks URL as bad for future reference, should Bob change his information to try and run an account on URL again.

Terry comes along and tries to open an account with that URL. "Nice try Terry! You think you can fool us...either you're actually Bob in disguise or are doing this to help Bob since his account is banned!"

This is how I see it. Plus, I don't think they particularly want someone running so many accounts. There are horror stories of this happening and failing miserably when something goes wrong, Google seems to frown upon it. In fact, they hate it. Google would RATHER have everyone have one account for their own URL and run it accordingly, not outside companies skilled with AdWords and able to minimize AdWord spending. Google wants all the money, not someone else sharing the cut.

[joobern]

Plus, I don't think they particularly want someone running so many accounts. There are horror stories of this happening and failing miserably when something goes wrong, Google seems to frown upon it. In fact, they hate it. Google would RATHER have everyone have one account for their own URL and run it accordingly, not outside companies skilled with AdWords and able to minimize AdWord spending. Google wants all the money, not someone else sharing the cut.

When it comes to running many accounts, I also have multiple mobile numbers, email addresses and telephone numbers which I make use of, since I also run multiple businesses, this is really to help me manage my cost, my businesses, my clients and keep a good overview. I do not have ulterior motives for using this strategy, one simply cant have 2 different businesses and have the same telephone number and the same secretary answer it. I have noticed this same problem with google adwords and like to keep things seperate. Especailly my google prepaid ads.

I even sent google scans of my ID, Passport, photo, credit card, and they still think I am bob.

The bank would never ever issue me a credit card with Bobs name on it!

There is no way I will pay Bobs bills and I am almost sure that Bobs shoes wont fit me for that matter.

They are simply unfair and together with my legal advisors we are looking at best angles to approach this situation at the moment.

And actually they owe me quite a bit of money at the moment. Oh I forgot, they are balancing the money I paid them into bobs account. They are taking my money and giving it to BOB? Unbelievable.

I rather stop now before I loose it...

[joobern]

Of course, why pay for something that was already delivered (advertising) and for which you are legally liable, just because Google has decided they don't want to do further business with you? I don't mean you personally, since it sounds like that was the debt of the previous company, but the fact that you "understand" why they feel that way is rather telling.

I understand it simply because of this:
should bob pay his outstanding balance then google will still not let bob go on with his marketing business after payment since they said that bob is suspended for 90 days whether paid for or not. Its a bit like the punishment we used to get at school. So bob loses his business and clients no matter how he does it. What would you decide to do in a situation like that?

Google gets richer, bob starts livin on the streets!

Whereby, the scenario could have been like this> Google gets richer and bob keeps on feeding his family by doing business with google!

So I understand Bobs point. But that is Bob and I am not Bob. Thats what im trying to get through to google.

[willybfriendly]

"Nice try Terry! You think you can fool us...either you're actually Bob in disguise or are doing this to help Bob since his account is banned!"

Quite arbitrary, and from my perspective abusive.

The video store (do those still exist?) is not going to refuse to rent because someone else in the apartment has overdue fees. The electric company is not going to refuse to turn on the lights because the last tenent left an overdue bill, saying, "We think Bob may still live there and you are just trying to help him out..."

Given the vast amounts of data that Google has, I would think they could pretty easily determine if Bob is still associated with the URL in question. Shucks, they might well be able to locate Bob to within 10 meters in real time, may have access a recent photo of him, and more.

Next time it is out and about, the street view car could probably approach Bob personally and ask him to settle up, rather than requiring innocent bystanders to engage in bill collections in order to run or establish their own business ;)

[outland88]

First of all, you opened multiple accounts under the same name and credit card - is that allowed? I actually don't know. It wasn't at one time.

I've wondered about this? Since we have so many people managing multiple Adword accounts in these forums perhaps we can get some clarification on this. Do customers just fork over their particulars and credit cards to open accounts in their names or what. Seems like Google would have some type of master account set-up for those who want to manage more than one account.

[netmeg]

I understand it simply because of this:
should bob pay his outstanding balance then google will still not let bob go on with his marketing business after payment since they said that bob is suspended for 90 days whether paid for or not. Its a bit like the punishment we used to get at school. So bob loses his business and clients no matter how he does it. What would you decide to do in a situation like that?

Since I am an honest person, I would pay for the advertising I used, regardless of what Google says it will do in future. Google deciding they don't want to do business with you doesn't mean you don't have to pay for goods or services already consumed.

Your remark about the punishment at school tells me something as well.

[joobern]

Quite arbitrary, and from my perspective abusive.

Exactly how I feel.

I feel punished for something that had no relation to me and this is abusive.

It could also be called collective punishment and I believe this to be illegal?

[Demaestro]

The electric company is not going to refuse to turn on the lights because the last tenent left an overdue bill, saying, "We think Bob may still live there and you are just trying to help him out..."

Actually this happened to me, they didn't refuse to turn on the lights, they refused to turn on the lights without a $250 deposit becuase the last tenant owed about 3 months back.

I remember yelling that my credit was good and there was no reason for them to ask for a deposit and her exact words were "How do we know that you aren't just doing this for "Bob"

I even offered to send a copy of my newly signed lease but that wasn't good enough because Bob could be my roommate. I even offered to put my landlord on the phone but that didn't happen.

This was 17 years ago though.

[piatkow]

The electric company is not going to refuse to turn on the lights because the last tenent left an overdue bill, saying, "We think Bob may still live there and you are just trying to help him out..."

Actually this happened to me, they didn't refuse to turn on the lights, they refused to turn on the lights without a $250 deposit becuase the last tenant owed about 3 months back.

Happened to me too, had to pay off the previous occupier's debt. The landlord repaid me but I couldn't get the power turned on until I handing the cheque over.

In the OP's case the equivalent would be buying a second property and having the power cut off in your main residence because the previous owner of the second property owed money.

[joobern]

Your remark about the punishment at school tells me something as well.

I grew up in apartheid times and collective punishment was the order of the day. I am sorry that my remark makes you think that my punishment at school has something to do with the outcome of my being. But what I really wonder is what my remark tells you exactly? Would you like to share?

Since I am an honest person, I would pay for the advertising I used, regardless of what Google says it will do in future. Google deciding they don't want to do business with you doesn't mean you don't have to pay for goods or services already consumed.

You keep on referring to "you" in your post and that puzzles me. I never ordered these services. I never consumed these services. I have nothing to do with payment of these services. I AM NOT BOB!

[trinorthlighting]

First of all, we understand why you are upset. I am more than sure you are not the first advertising business to run into this issue, but instead of going back and forth on email with Google I suggest that you call Google and speak to a live human. Explain the situation very politely and fully and listen to them. Do not threaten legal action right away if you do not get a good result from the AdWords specialist on the phone, politely ask for a supervisor. If the situation is like you explain, Google will clear it up for you.

What country are you located in so I can dig up a good telephone number for you?

[joobern]

What country are you located in so I can dig up a good telephone number for you?

South Africa and Namibia. Thanks for the effort!

[webfox007]

joobern, from experience once you pick up the sword of legal justice the only ones that win are the attorneys. It's definitely not fair what google is doing but, you're on their playing field and they make the rules. Don't do what i did and $300,000 later you wish you never picked up the sword. It's a bottomless pit and very little satisfaction and they last for years. Then add appeals to it and your close to a decade before you get paid, assuming you win. Plus, they have an army of attorneys and you will probably only have 1.

My attorney once threatened <a lawyer> (defendants attorneys) in one of my cases and it was 6 years later to figure out i lost. <The lawyer> told my attorney he would marshall his 100's of attorneys on me to defeat me. Nothing against <the lawyer's company>, they are a big and powerful firm, its just an example of the little guy going after a giant, odds are stacked in their favor; deep bench, unlimited funds, unlimited time and in their best interest to drag it out until you run out of money and pull your case.

The attorneys will tell you that you have a great case and you are sure to win but, its a conflict of interest, they make money if you win or lose. I have done contingent as well and then the attorney will say the same thing and force you into a low ball settlement where they make more than you.

I would try some compassion with the G giant and if after multiple attempts then best to walk away and cut your losses. Before i started my legal woes a very rich and older investor told me that i was wasting my time and i thought he was foolish and weak, boy was he right.

Sincerely - good luck!

[edited by: buckworks at 10:50 pm (utc) on Mar 22, 2010]
[edit reason] Removed specifics [/edit]

[trinorthlighting]

You will have to use a United States prefix: 1-866-246-6453

The number in the UK is 0845 358 0038

[joobern]

I decided to let this matter go since it is starting to take its toll on my health. I have requested a refund of my prepaid money invested, whether Google now decides to honor this request is up to them.

Luckily I also have other projects to concentrate on at this moment and I think it is a waste of time trying to persuade Google.

Thank you all for your inputs and comments. I will definitely spend more time at webmasterworld!

[joobern]

This is the reply from google for my refund...

<snip>

[email removed - Google has refused the request for a refund, saying that Joobern needs to contact the account owners of the defaulting accounts and settle the disputes with them.]

Thanks google, now I can put "Google Debt collector" into my CV as a sideline job....

Damm disgrace to humanity, its people like google that make me sick. To big and to arrogant to care!

[edited by: buckworks at 12:24 pm (utc) on Mar 19, 2010]
[edit reason] No emails, no exceptions; paraphrases only [/edit]

[webfox007]

To big and to arrogant to care!

that sounds like some other large entity i know.....the US Gov't....sorry, the temptation was just too great.

i must say though, G has taken "arrogance" to a whole new level....the view from up there must be pretty nice.

[StoutFiles]

Is it too much money to swallow your pride and pay up? Is it worth losing all your accounts for?

[BillyS]

joobern - Did you edit that post from Google? Was it translated from another language?

I've worked in the collections / customer service area in the past and these responses are normally a copy and paste task. They're written by a local manger or supervisor then run up the line for legal review. Generally, all of the typos are cleaned up as the language moves through the process. There are several grammatical mistakes in that post.

It’s not a big deal, it just seems funny to me the way it’s written. I know we proofread our message like this about a dozen times.

One thing I find interesting is they’re offering is to work out a deferred payment arrangement. This would allow you to pay back the money owed over time. I know what you’re saying about it not being your debt, but you’re limiting your future too. You might be able to work out a deal whereby you only need to pay a portion of the debt owed (50% or so).

If you decide to open a new account, it’s very likely that Google will immediately or eventually figure out the old and new account belong to the same entity. This is a big decision, take a deep breath and don’t make one on emotion that you might regret later on.

[joobern]

Is it too much money to swallow your pride and pay up? Is it worth losing all your accounts for?

Doing further business with Google is just too risky in the long run.

Imagine this scenario, what if somebody starts running your website URL on his adwords account only limiting views of the ads to certain countries so you wont ever notice. Then he just runs up a very high bill and doesn't pay the bill. Then all off a sudden next time you login to our ad words account they tell you that you have been suspended due to an outstanding bill on your URL?

Google has proven they can do whatever they like and I will stay well clear of those people. This post is just to warn everyone.

This is a big decision, take a deep breath and don’t make one on emotion that you might regret later on.

I am pursuing other options for the marketing division, since everybody seems to be doing google marketing lately I think there is a strong niche market in other sites such as bing, yahoo, etc. A lot of countries seem to have they very own specific local search engines and portals, which is also quite interesting.

Regarding the outstanding amount, it has nothing to do with me and I will stand quite strongly on this point.

Regarding the prepaid money they took from me and are not willing to refund, Let the google boys have a complimentary fancy dinner with that money, kindly sponsored by our company.

[webfox007]

I've worked in the collections / customer service area in the past and these responses are normally a copy and paste task.

BillyS, does this mean you currently work for Google or did in the past....or did i read the response incorrectly. This is a very unfair practice that Google is doing and its the same ideology that is driving our Gov't right now: privatize profits and socialize losses.

joobern should not be expected to pay for some strangers debt. I wish i could find a stranger to pay my debt, well, i guess thats not any different then our gov't, our kids kids will pay off our current debt.

If you do work for Google can't you run it up the flag pole and get someone to make an exception for goodwill towards webmasterworld?

I feel so bad for joobern that i am almost ready to pay for it myself.

[joobern]

BillyS, does this mean you currently work for Google or did in the past....or did i read the response incorrectly. This is a very unfair practice that Google is doing and its the same ideology that is driving our Gov't right now: privatize profits and socialize losses.

joobern should not be expected to pay for some strangers debt. I wish i could find a stranger to pay my debt, well, i guess thats not any different then our gov't, our kids kids will pay off our current debt.

If you do work for Google can't you run it up the flag pole and get someone to make an exception for goodwill towards webmasterworld?

I feel so bad for joobern that i am almost ready to pay for it myself.

Thanks for understanding my situation. Even if they overturn they decision and let me market these new clients, the cients have already left, so there is no use now. I am also no longer interested.

I am not even sure these clients will find another marketer, it seems google will shut every future marketer down who has any connections with the Domain Names in question.

But what I would like for google to do is just to accept the fact that I am not liable to pay these outstanding amounts and repay the prepaid monies I invested into these marketing accounts, and let me continue doing my stuff normally.

Trust me, if in future I should make use of google services again I would research the Domain names and clients history thoroughly prior to accepting them.

[Seb7]

But I am planning to take legal action.

I think you are doing the right things. Your first priority is try and keep your income stream running.

I think you need to get a response from Google stating whether their actions were automated or improved manually by a person. This will make a difference in court.

Google has treated you unfairly, their decision has effected your income so I think they are totally liable. They owe you what you had to pay on other account and the amount of income you have lost as result of their decision.