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How many keywords per ad group?

Scratching my head

         

Laughingcat

5:21 am on Dec 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hello all, I'm obviously very new to AdWords. I'm in to my second full day with one campaign consisting of three ad groups. Absolutely abysmal results so far (5000+ impressions, 4 clickthroughs) I was prepared for this and am not disappointed.

Two Questions:
1. How many keywords or phrases should I be using per ad group (currently using 15-20 exact match or phrase)?

2. In the 'title' and 'description' spaces do count as characters, correct?

Thanks,
Mark

TimmyMagic

9:28 am on Dec 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'm by no means an expert, but I would suggest you makesure your keywords are very targeted to what you are selling/providing. 15 to 20 sounds about right.

Makesure your title and description is good enough.

And yes I believe spaces count as characters. But this doesn't matter anyway, because Google limits these anyway. There is no way of making it too big.

Good luck.

Tim

onlineleben

2:07 pm on Dec 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Make your ads and your keywords more specific. Try two-word or three-word combinations to lower the number of searches that apply to your keyphrase. with 4 clicks per 5000 impressions, your ads will probably be cancelled soon.
Have a read in these forums about increasing CTR.
Lots of helpful stuff here.

AdWordsAdvisor

8:03 pm on Dec 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Welcome to the forum, Laughingcat. Cool user name!

IMO, the number of keywords used is not nearly as important as the quality of the keywords used -and how they are used.

To put it starkly, one really great keyword is far better than 1000 terrible keywords.

Why? Well, one great keyword, used in a targeted Ad Group, will bring you pre-qualified customers. 1000 terrible keyword can have your entire account slowed down in a matter of a few minutes.

There is another thread on keywords, and I've just posted a few (hopefully) helpful tips there. Please see:

[webmasterworld.com...]

(P.S. Yes spaces do count, as noted by TimmyMagic.)

AWA

hudson

6:52 pm on Dec 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



To put it starkly, one really great keyword is far better than 1000 terrible keywords.

hmmm...I am starting to understand this more and more

Laughingcat

8:50 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Many thanks to those that replied.
So, here's what I did, eliminated 'ALL' keywords with high impressions and no CTR (20 down to 4). Secondly, whittled my creatives from 8 down to 2..... partly (mostly) because of Googles non-approval. Thirdly, (Thirdly?...hokey,..I know) Keywords in Title! Most impressive results from this one change! (based on the 'creatives' CTR). Fourthly, (last time) added more keywords and phrases and eliminated those with high impressions and no clicks, my current list consists of six exact match key phrases.
Results - CTR at beginning resulted in 3 campaign restarts ($15.00). CTR now - consistent 2.5 - 15%.
Thanks again to all for their valuable info, and especially to AWA who's advice has proven supreme for me (Very Targeted Keywords).

Mark

webdiversity

11:53 pm on Dec 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



We've just done that on a campaign we've taken over. Looked at the stats and paused 400 keywords (out of 415) and results have been the same in terms of sales.

That would be a useful feature to have for Adwords, the ability to pause keywords in a campaign on Google (in case we want to pause some at the weekend, but keep lower priced ones running).

Just a thought late on a Saturday night.

AdWordsAdvisor

7:28 pm on Dec 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



That would be a useful feature to have for Adwords, the ability to pause keywords in a campaign on Google (in case we want to pause some at the weekend, but keep lower priced ones running).

I'll certainly pass that on, webdiversity.

:) AWA

Code Sentinel

4:11 pm on Jan 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



2000 keywords are allowed per group :)

anallawalla

1:46 am on Jan 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



You will find your own answer after a few months of trying various tactics. I was recently called in to rescue a campaign where the PPC manager had chosen to add a "holiday campaign" to a totally nonseasonal product. e.g. (fictitious) broad matches like "widget disposal for Christmas", "widget disposal for friends" etc. They had also added stock phrases to existing keywords, e.g. "where to buy widgets", "shopping for widgets" etc. The net result was over 2500 keywords, mostly irrelevant to this company but probably fine for an online store or a seasonal line.

Such a large campaign becomes tedious to eyeball and rather depressing when 75% of the keywords don't even pull a single impression. So I pruned it down to <200 keywords and turned most to exact or phrase. Conversions have tripled. There is no magic formula - it depends on the keyword usage, business and product.

In the long term you want to know which creative does well and which one needs attention. By default, Google now displays better performing ads more often, but you may want to turn off that feature to convince yourself statistically which ad does better.

You may also want to learn if one creative does better with a given keyword or with another. So, you could have one keyword and one creative per ad group but for a decent campaign this could get unwieldy. Hence my starting sentence.

Ash

AdWordsAdvisor

2:02 am on Jan 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Well said anallawalla. I completely agree that a handful of 'golden' keywords are worth far more than thousands of poor ones.

2000 keywords are allowed per group :)

BTW, you'll find account navigation easier if you stick to a max of 2000 keywords per campaign, and 750 per Ad Group.

AWA

dmorison

7:56 am on Jan 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



750 per Ad Group.

AWA - It would be nice if the Adwords interface could chew on a power post of 750 keywords in one go, consistently, and without the random failure modes that you get now.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I worry about my account getting left in an inconsistent state. I don't have much hair left as it is...

AdWordsAdvisor

6:55 pm on Jan 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



AWA - It would be nice if the Adwords interface could chew on a power post of 750 keywords in one go, consistently, and without the random failure modes that you get now.

Point well taken, and I'll pass it along later this week.

One thing that occurs to me in the meantime is that a keyword list of 750 words such as:

widget
widgets
widgetorama
widgetesque
and 746 others...

Is a lot less to process than 750 keywords such as:

large round cerulean blue widget covers
rusty steel widget polishing services boston
accident damaged widgets repaired brooklyn ny
misbehaving widgets trained at home london
and 746 others...

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I worry about my account getting left in an inconsistent state. I don't have much hair left as it is...

Oh my gosh! I can certainly relate to the frustration and uncertainty. Sorry about that, dmorison.

AWA

dmorison

7:34 pm on Jan 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Thanks, AWA.

I've kinda learnt when to do it. Midnight on Sunday is the time to set-up monster campaigns... :)