Forum Moderators: martinibuster
All 3 are in big financial trobules.
All 3 have very interesting stuff to fill huge web sites, and to solve all their problems with AdSense.
All refuse to talk about it.
"I am not a scribbler"
"I will never make advertising for my competitiors"
Tells the first one
"I can not understand it, maybe I can get the idea next year, now I want not to talk about it"
Tells the second
It's sometimes very frustrating not to be able to help people, because they are to stupid.
Sounds very familiar.
About three years ago, a friend of mine, a talented project manager, with wife and kid, found himself on the job market as the employer went bankrupt. My friend wanted to go into a "selling insurances" type business (no smart e-commerce stuff, but in person). At the same time I offered him to join me in my consulting firm to help in a customer project.
Boy, it took three long evenings of "harsh words" and "undisguised truths" to talk him out of the insurance thing and in to the consultancy. At some points he was even quite upset about this. I finally succeeded. Guess what? Today, he is more happy than ever and thanks me every now and then for having done so.
The lesson? You have to be very direct (i.e. not polite at all) and you have to show up the alternatives the individual has and the consequences of their actions for their life. Make it as concrete as possible. If they still don't buy it after a certain time (how long depends on your willingness to talk to the deaf), then just stop pestering them. They won't understand anyway, and you have your own life to live.
Good luck!
-- M.
This thread sure went from inspirational to collection agency in a hurry!
I have to have enough money for my wife and 2 doughters. I had done in the past to much to help people and my wife becomes very angry when I make something for no money.
Sounds very familiar.
2 of this 3 are making business in an area of upper luxury.
Business situation is general not so good in Austria and Germany. So the first possibility to spend less money is to avoid upper luxury.
This hits both of them heavy.
But special one of them is a big dreamer.
All the last year, he rented a big office room for 1100.-EUR per month and tolled me to make every 2 weeks a big event in this rooms.
After one year, he had to give up the big office.
0 events performed.
And just to re-iterate what I think has already been said, Adsense is not the quick fix solution it seems to be in most cases.
Jetteroheller, to be honest I'd just ditch the clients. There comes a point you need to think of your business. You've offered them a solution, a pretty good one for people in their position IMO. They don't accept then dump them and pursue for any money owed.
Maybe they don't want to do it for other business reasons, or yeh, they could just be stupid. But that shouldn't be your problem.
As for a lot of the other comments of the thread, I can't help feeling you've been a little negative about the people (presumably friends / family) you talk about. Finding your calling in life is a very difficult thing to do.
I run a career advice forum and on a daily basis, handfulls of people come along in a crisis not knowing what to do with their careers. Doesn't matter what history they have, their age, their education, their family - whatever - it's still a hard part of life for some people.
I realise some of you may have had responses which you might perceive as being excuses - and they may just be excuses, but there's also the chance that the person you are speaking to doesn't find SEO / Adsense / etc an attractive prospect.
At face value, SEO is incredibly boring. We mess around with content and various other factors and slowly watch shift in rankings. I'm not surprised people don't jump on board right away.
I think if you are encouraging people to enter into the Adsense game you need to think about how well it will work for them. I have a friend who is a writer, so Adsense would probably be good for him (as it was for Garfieldt's sister for example) - it's a good fit. But for someone with no interest in writing, the internet, etc it's completely pointless - it takes a lot of work and you may as well be advising them to start a career in real estate sales or prostitution for all the relevance it will have to their specific lives.
Just because something works for me and you doesn't mean it will work for the next guy. May as well be selling Amway.
MG
I’m with you.
I have an example even closer to home. My wife is a very good writer and she was made for Adsense. She even has a degree in English Lit. But, she has no desire to spend here days tied down to a computer, she is a social person. The solitude that I find so attractive to me is like jail for here. She writes when she wants about what she wants.
I have tried to encourage her to turn her skill and passion into revenue with no success. However, it’s a fine line trying to push someone you love into something they have no interest in. After all, pushing too hard will make for some cold nights at home and life is not all about money.
I have never once been able force someone into do anything with good results; not at work and not with family. All we can do is offer encouragement and understanding. Everyone’s path is different.
Jetteroheller,
Stop maintaining the site, don’t delete it just yet. Tell those three guys you are moving on and then move on. They may or may not come back. I may sound cold, but I would lose any sleep over them. You have to look out for you and yours.
We've raised a couple of generations of wimps in the last 50 years or so. It used to be, for the vast majority of folks, you did what you HAD to do if you wanted to get by and have a family and all of that. Now it seems like a lot (maybe even most) people feel it is some kind of inherent right to "do what they want." In some ways, yes, that's a good thing. It's a reflection of the improvements in modern life that we have that luxury. But I think the pendulum has swung too far. There are people in dire straits who balk at doing anything outside the box of what they're used to doing or like doing. The notion of being owed lifetime employment somehow set in over the last few decades, and I think it has greatly weakened us. It kills the independent drive that I believe most of us have within us. Anyway, I think that's partly to blame for the reluctance we're all reporting on the part of others to try something new or that they have no interest in. Damn, if my family was in need, the LAST thing I'd worry about would be if I liked doing what put food on the table and kept a roof over their heads. Priorities are all out of whack.
I myself am in dire financial straits, as my husband was out of work for a long time. We went through our life savings and are now up to our eyebrows in debt. He's working again now, but at about half his former salary. I myself currently can't look for work outside the home, for reasons that I won't bother you with.
I'm an artist, and over the past year have made a start selling my paintings. (I sold other types of artwork in the past until I finally settled on painting just over a year ago.) But it's been tough sledding, as you can imagine. I much agree about desperation leading to poor choices--it also makes it very hard to be creative when you're only thinking about the bottom dollar.
I really need some other sources of income while I work on developing my painting skills. Here and there I've made a few bucks creating websites for friends and maintaining them. I try to continue to upgrade my knowledge of html and css, but am increasingly having trouble with both eyestrain and juggling all my projects, so have just started getting my husband interested in learning HTML, with the hope he'll be able to help me with, if not take over, a lot of my online activities eventually.
I'm also a professionally published writer (I'm listed in the on-line Locus guide to science fiction and fantasy authors), and after someone kindly introduced me to Adsense and I added it to my art website pages a few weeks ago, I've become interested in the idea of creating more websites with articles I've written, and collecting advertising revenue. So if anyone could offer me any help or advice, I'd be very, very, very appreciative! Of course, I am trying to read all the information that's already offered on this forum, too, as time allows.
While you are absolutely all correct that some people can't be helped, obviously (I think), I'm not someone who would rather face bankruptcy than make a web page--or write--or clean houses (which I've done too), or whatever it takes to extricate myself and those I love from the current situation. We have learned to live on very little, and even $500 extra a month would make a huge difference to us, so it's NOT as if I expect or need to get rich in a hurry.
Thank you all for sharing your experiences and insights, and for a very illuminating read.
Miki
I know this is going to be an extreme concept for a SEO forum, but maybe just maybe some people don't view sitting in front of a computer 10+ hours a day as an attractive proposition.
I am traveling much on interesting fairs to write about them.
They would not need to work so much, all the know how and the CMS would have been from me, they had only to make the content
And just to re-iterate what I think has already been said, Adsense is not the quick fix solution it seems to be in most cases.
2 of them have already web sites with an estimated AdSense value near $1000 a month.
Both want to enlarge their web sites, even when they have no money to pay me.
1 regular visits special fairs for his profession.
He already makes much photos, just for his own usage.
All he would have to do is to change his view point.
Not to make photos for his own use, but to make them for his web site and write about it.
Jetteroheller, to be honest I'd just ditch the clients.
One was 1997 in a desperat financial situation my first more than $10.000 web design contract. Only for this contract, I programmed the first version of my CMS, the foundation of my business
One is the godfather of my older doughter
One brought me 2000 my most paying client. 32.500,--EUR
Just remember if everyone followed your business model, you wouldn't be making as much as you are now. $1000 a month today could be worth 10% of that a year from now. The market is very psychotic unless you have a core business which is not vulnerable to market flunctuations.
AdSense does work if you have the dedication. And it does pay on almost any level of dedication. However, to see it get to the point of a reliable income, is another matter entirely. More competition within your own niche means less money for you.
Also, Google could change AdSense even more in the future and forums like this will dry up, along with those who were making a lot of money from it.
We must remember that AdSense is NOT a reliable income. It is as stable as the stock market. I would advise most of you making over $300 a month from this program to withhold 50% of it and put it in the bank for a very rainy day--which will happen. Some of you have experience making websites outside of AdSense which is good, but I would say, most do not, and merely make a website because AdSense rewards you for doing so--not because you like the subject you're advertising. Fast money leaves you as fast as it comes to you.
You seem to be on the right track. There is not much to learn other then the same things you can find on Google. Hoe to blend in ads, using the heat map etc.
Maybe if you post your question in it's own thread it will draw more attention and get you some suggestions from the heavy hitters in here....and there are a few, quite a few ;)
Good luck and I hope things do improve for you.
Ann
<edit>
BTW, welcome to Webmaster World!
Heavy hitters--no kidding! I came by here originally wondering if anyone else had noticed a sudden drop in their earnings. In my case it was from an average of $2 a day to just a few cents. Then I found a thread where some guy was complaining his $500 a day had dropped to $100! The mind boggles. Anyway, it gives the rest of us hope. :-)
Miki
Iwould try working on getting known and then your earnings should increase.
Ann
Here is what I do when I meet new people (and even old friends) with something *great* to write about, whether it be a hobby, a skill, a love or just great stories to tell.
I plant a seed just letting them know that if they would give me a sample of their writing -- a decent unedited article -- I'll pay them $50 for it. Then if they will commit to writing consistently, I'll keep paying them.
They all get excited, but few have followed through. I will gladly design sites around each of these topics... they are all great niches... if they would just DO IT!
But I do find that they lack what we have here... either that entrepeneurial spirit or just the confidence to believe that hard work will pay off.
Just remember if everyone followed your business model, you wouldn't be making as much as you are now.
I have about 40 clients. I suggest it only to 3.
$1000 a month today could be worth 10% of that a year from now.
Maybe for a scraper.
Sites with real content are very stable
The market is very psychotic unless you have a core business which is not vulnerable to market flunctuations.
All this 3 people had a core business vanisihing by market fluctuations.
The remaining rest of people in this business can
* vanish
* invest much in advertising
* live from the advertising money from others
We must remember that AdSense is NOT a reliable income.
There are businesses with a much less reliable income.
One of the 3 has a conversion rate from 1:30.000
Most people like to see the pictures and collect ideas.
And he is happy with 2 or 3 contracts per year.
It is as stable as the stock market. I would advise most of you making over $300 a month from this program to withhold 50% of it and put it in the bank
And with what should somebody pay his bills?
Make all the journey to create more content?
You write like a clerk with life time protection against dismissal.
Now that my friends have seen my lifestyle they are envious. Some nag me to teach them all of this stuff, but then when it comes down to it they just want me to make money for them. They don't understand all of the (often tidious) work, commitment, and dedication that it takes.
On the other hand I have friends that just graduated from college. They have no interest in following what I do... to reinerate some of the things said previously in other posts, this is because:
1. They are too scared to venture on their own and take accountability for their own life. They enjoy the stability of a bi-weekly check from their employer and don't mind the financial limitations of their work.
** Honestly though, we need people like this because these are the kind of people that people like us hire to do the work that we don't like doing (lol).
2. Some people just DON'T like sitting on the computer all day! I know it's crazy, but I wouldn't like to go and teach school kids everyday for the next 40 years either (lol). Point being... everyone doesn't enjoy the same things.
Anyways, my point is do what you do. You can't be to concerned with helping your friends because usually they lack either the intelligence, dedication, or motivation to actually learn and apply the information you will give them. If they are serious they will learn like most of us did... participating in forums, reading books, experimenting with web dev, etc...
At face value, SEO is incredibly boring. We mess around with content and various other factors and slowly watch shift in rankings. I'm not surprised people don't jump on board right away
SEO is not only terrible boring,
it is a severe threat to Your mental health.
2002, I had big theories about PR architecture.
March 2004, I had a big disaster with my real estate software.
While I was far away to install my real estate CMS at a realtor, Google changed search algorithm very drastic.
Since this time, I have given up all SEO theories.
I do not read SEO forums, because 2 people discussing have 5 different oppinions.
Now I say only "good content good presented" about SEO work, that's all.
Trying to figure out every month the algorithm changes would stop me to write new content and bring me after some years into the insane asylum.
After hosting and devloping sites for more than 7 years before I bailed to get away from idiots like you're dealing with, I learned early on the easiest way to get paid is give them a "FINAL COLLECTION" letter or email with a 10-15 day deadline. When you don't have payment by that time just shut the thing off. You would be amazed how fast you can collect a credit card the same day it goes offline when people can't take orders, get or send email - hehehehe.
FWIW, you should always require 50% up front and 50% on delivery, not when they go live. If they never go live I could care less and if they don't pay the final 50% the site stays on my server and they never get it moved. The initial 50% covers most of my time and pays the bills in case they turn deadbeat.
If it were me, I'd shut them all down and move on.
If they pay, you did good.
If they don't pay, they don't have a web site - done.
If you go this route, be sure to put an agreement in writing, and deal specifically with the situation where one partner doesn't do the expected work. For the content partner, I'd set a realistic goal, e.g., three original articles of at least 400 words every week. If that objective is missed for three consecutive weeks or if the total article deficit reaces 12 (for example), ownership of the site and existing content goes to you. (Naturally, to be fair there should be standards for the tech partner, too.)
Recently I slipped and sort of opened up to one close friend. This led to him telling everyone else I know, how much Money I make, etc etc. Next thing I knew there were rumors flying around that I was a porn star lol. Most of my friends have asked me to help them create sites and become successful web authors. I have helped some, but found that they don't have as close to the amount of Patience that I do. They expect to be making $10K a month without any out of pocket costs and with 1 hour work a day.
Just my ramblings :)
FWIW, you should always require 50% up front and 50% on delivery, not when they go live. If they never go live I could care less and if they don't pay the final 50% the site stays on my server and they never get it moved. The initial 50% covers most of my time and pays the bills in case they turn deadbeat.
First one at start
Second concept and first pages finished
Last one at publishing
They expect to be making $10K a month without any out of pocket costs and with 1 hour work a day.
Some people just seem to need that structure of a corporate environment to set their work hours for them.
I prefer the other version ..
"You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think"
I also get the urge to let people in on this business sometimes - but it passes after 30 seconds or so.
I am peppered all the time too with questions about "how I do it." Which usually lead to them wanting me to lead them by the hand and show them how to do it, which leads to them trying to get me to do it for them because they can't or won't.
The jealous ones automatically think/ask if I am doing porn stuff on the internet. Which is really insulting if you think about it. You're not smart enough to build a successful internet business so you must be an internet p-i-m-p of some kind. My websites are on some very mundane topics compared to porn.
I even have lots of people ask to see my websites and I won't tell them or show them. So, perhaps this is why they think I am doing porn stuff. But I'd rather have them think that, then get jealous and steal my websites or click my ads to get me kicked off, which your "friends" will do if they think you are doing better then them.
These days, when people ask me how to do it: I just point them to a few of the best threads at WebmasterWorld and say read those, and follow them. When they see they have to do it on their own, they stop bothering me.
rookiecd is right that it's better not to tell people too much or else they'll jump all over what you are doing.
And swebbie is 200 percent correct. Really hit the nail on the had.
We've raised a couple of generations of wimps in the last 50 years or so. It used to be, for the vast majority of folks, you did what you HAD to do if you wanted to get by and have a family and all of that.
Globalization is really going to make things worse for the average person in the West, and those who can't adapt and overcome, live in a dreamworld of what "should be" and they are "owed" something, will be either be run over or a burden on the rest of the folks. (Read high unemployment in Western Europe and USA's disintegration of the middle class.)
Webmasters are not immune either and the one who said saving 50 percent is giving good advice. Your business plan should include contingencies for the growing pains of globalization.
One of them, let's call him M
He did not pay his bills all the year 2004.
I had given him a last deadline December 2004.
He wrote back that I have to sign a contract in order to receive the money.
One major point of the contract was:
Delete from my internet promotion site the customer reference page about him
Delete everything on his page, that I designed the site.
I explained him about links and PR.....
But he told me, that he belives that I want to cheat him.
He really forced me to remove all my links from my site to his site.
His main page had before PR5
Now his main page has only PR3
6 month later, he vailed about much less visitors.
There is a fair in November special about material for his profession.
He is just right now so low on money, that he is not able to pay my bill for his website, or to pay the 600km travel to the fair.
So I invited him to visit together the fair.
I estimate a good coverage of the fair could bring 100 to 250 AdSense $ per month.
