AdSense and forums

Just thinking (typing) out loud

[Webwork]

Question: If you are going to run AdSense on a forum is it incumbent upon you - the forummaster - to state in your forum's TOS that certain subjects are unacceptable and will be deleted?

Since AdSense is contextual advertising is the forummaster's duty to see that the "content" conforms to AdSense terms?

If this is not an issue now might it become one as standards or restrictions tighten?

Assume that certain stop words would cause PSAs to run. Would the fact that PSA run mean you haven't violated the AdSense agreements by allowing AdSense to run on pages with nOkay topics?

Sub-question: Would the companies "behind" those PSAs be unhappy if someone reported that their ads appeared on forum pages discussing . . . the happiness of binge drinking or marijuana?

Might that non-profit pass word along to AdSense that someone reported seeing their PSA in an unflattering context? WWAdSD?

What responsibility over matters of "associated content" does a forum operator have when that person chooses to allow AdSense to run in their forum?

None? Don't think so. Then what? Cull, edit, delete posts of "surrounding material" that would otherwise violate the AdSense restrictions?

Anyone have definitive answers or insights to the question: If you wrote it yourself and wrapped it with AdSense - and it wouldn't pass muster - then should anyone expect the same restrictions would not apply to content that is created "on the fly"?

Besides, is forum content really content? (What "is" content anyways?)

Maybe it's type for "AdSense for forums"?

[aeiouy]

I think your responsiblity is to properly and actively moderate your forums.

I don't think Google is going to do anything to you if some user posts some off-color topic, as long as you deal with it a reasonable amount of time.

[Jenstar]

There are plenty of stop words that cause PSAs that aren't in violation of any terms/policies. If a certain airline's plane crashes, that airline could become a PSA for a few days. Likewise, certain personal names could be added to the stop list for some reason (such as a victim of a crime, or a suspect's name). PSAs do not equal content violations.

As far as content that is not allowed as per the policies, it is up to the publisher to police it. An excuse of "well, that content would only show PSAs anyway, so I thought it was fine" would not make it A-OK in the eyes of AdSense.

PSAs run on pages where there are reasons for not showing targeted ads (ie. you don't want to see ads for cheap ABC Airline tickets when an ABC Airlines jet has just crashed). PSAs are just that - a public service - and those ads that appear are free to the various charities, and I haven't heard of any complaining because their free ads turned up somewhere they didn't want them to show. They know those ads will show where targeted ads are not available or not appropriate.

Many publishers have been warned or suspended because of content posted on message boards, so yes, it is the obligation of the publisher to police it if they want their AdSense account in good standing.

[Webwork]

Thanks Jen. I think you've distilled the essence of the issue. I'd like to cover a bit more about safeguards, standards, etc.

For instance:

1. Is it incumbent upon a forummaster to state plainly - perhaps not only in the forums charter/TOS, but elsewhere - which AdSense specific topics will be deleted? "No beer, handguns, weapons, explicit sex, etc."? Would failing to be specific count against someone in a "close call" situation?

2. If a forummaster gets called on the carpet would it be helpful, in their defense, if they did - in fact - labor to spell out member duties/limitations? I think that would be a fair consideration. What about evidence of past enforcement? What about proof that the violating thread(s) were from a problem member who has been banned? (Some forums show a member's status as banned. Is that a good idea as part of "proof of good faith efforts to comply"?)

You all following me here? I'm trying to craft a bit of an "emergency preparedness kit". ;)

3. Since a forum is live, 24/7/365, and therefore content gets slung up all the time, are there reasonable time windows for pulling down anything that might violate the AS TOS? Does it make sense that there would be a different warning protocol for AdSense on a forum?

4. I guess if you are running a forum - whether you run AdSense of not - you never get the luxury of taking a vacation where you declare "I'm going to be offline for a few weeks" - a practice that I recommend as a marriage and family life saver. ;)

5. Does one explain in one's forum's TOS that certain restrictions apply in order to satisfy compliance with AdSense? Is it a good idea or bad idea to be direct?

6. Is it "good planning" to exclude AdSense from certain sections of one's forum? Say, each forums equivalent of "foo" - where anything goes (to a degree) and therefore the subject matter is more unpredictable?

I see the combination of AdSense and forums as an issue that is likely to undergo increased scrutinty in the future - for a variety of reasons - including some bad ones. ("Support our forum", however nuanced, is likely one such reason, given the difficulties in finding ways to fund forums.)

I see very little discussion of the issue of forums, other than "AdSense isn't working for my forum" - with the occassional exception of someone saying "It makes $$$$ for my forum". Yet, even then, there's little discussion of "Well, what exactly contributes to ones particular success". (That's more of an aside. What I'd really like to focus on is compliance planning and execution.)

So, how does one effectively anticipate, plan for and execute a forum AdSense compliance plan?

[Webwork]

Here's a thought: Having an "AdSense" sensitive bad word list and filter.

Ever think of adding "beer" to your word filter list?

How about filtering out "AdSense", "click on . .", etc?

If you don't filter - and you have a busy forum (in other words, reading all the posts would be problematic) can you have someone create a script that scans "all posts since . . . " for the presence of words or phrases that might trigger an email?

AdSense forum compliance toolkit and safe operation manual. Do you have one?

Are there elements of "thoughtful design" of a forum - besides thinking "where to place ads or how to make the most money with AdSense" - which thoughts/considerations are equally important, especially if you manage to bring a forum to life that actually does produce significant revenue?

Anyone have any other insights, tips or tricks to offer?

[edited by: Webwork at 7:04 pm (utc) on Aug. 29, 2005]

[jomaxx]

Not sure if you were implying this earlier, but I don't think you should mention AdSense whatsoever. I would have thought that it would be enough to post a general statement of policy that the site is intended to remain family-friendly, and that no discussion condoning illegal activities will be tolerated.

...That may not prevent the discussions from happening, but it will give you the room you need to moderate or edit threads as appropriate, in a consistent manner.

[Webwork]

I'm inclined to agree with the "no mention" approach jomaxx, especially out in the forum proper, but what about being a bit more specific with "the rules"?

It's just one issue but might be towards the top of the list.

What are some ideas or examples of "best practices" when it comes to AdSense rules compliance and enforcement in forums?

Is it simply a matter of the secret police, that is, below radar policing efforts that are AdSense specific but that are - "in their execution or intention" (perhaps) - kept intentionally vague?

"Hmmm. Maybe I don't want to mention anything anywhere because that will give some knucklehead an idea of how to give me grief . . . but . . . the less direct I am the more time I have to spend asking, explaining, correcting . . ."

So, what are some examples of AdSense specific best practices when it comes to compliance in forums?

Hey! Here's a crazy idea: What about forums that - arguably - are about creating content specifically intended to trigger the highest paying AdSense keywords (and take it from there what else is going on.)? Where's the meso gang? (I know. Old news.)

Best practices - affirmative and preventive - for forums. Pitch in.

[jema]

I think google have better things to do that to over police forums. Any number of "free forum" systems use google adsense, and a typical free forum systems will have 1000's of forum and be impossible to police by the owners unless they have clever tracking software.
So I would assume that a forum would need to show a high CTR for google to check it.

[Webwork]

jema, are you thinking that there's no way for AdSense to police forums for "content compliance" and "rules compliance"?

Here's a thought: What IF, as part of an AdSense quality control push, Google unleashed a set of specially designed scanning tools on forums running AdSense? Tools specifically designed to address the problematic task of forum compliance?

Since forum content is created "on the fly" - if you were charged with responsibility for assuring that your advertisers were not being gamed by cleverly created/worded "interactive content" wouldn't you create tools for performing quality control examinations specifically created to scan forums,? Wouldn't you do it automatically, by specialized forum spiders or bots? Especially if your company was all about automation?

All I'm doing is suggesting that if you depend on AdSense as an important source of income - derived from 1 or more forums - that you need to create tools and systems for assuring that your forum's content is in compliance.

So, anyone see any heavily keyword loaded posts in AdSense funded forums lately? "My meso lawsuit for my meso injury has caused my meso to claim for money damages by my personal injury lawyer who specializes in asbestosis and meso . . .".

If keyword stuffing can get a hand coded site booted why wouldn't the same standard apply to a forum, or pseudo-forum? "Oh, didn't produce that content . . don't punish me for the keyword stuffing . .

Just food for thought.

Got a forum compliance toolbox? No? Get one.

[jema]

Bear in mind on a free forum system, there is no incentive for the forum admins to stuff keywords, as they do not get the income.

[Heartlander]

Alright- so a site about the outdoors with a hunting forum cannot have any posts regarding hunting weapons?
You try telling the members why those words are censored.
I remember a member here getting banned or suspended for a "gun site", but enforcing anything hard and fast in a thread on a discussion forum is over the line, in my opinion.

No beer jokes in the Humor Forum?

Come on already.

Then rip the accounts of every forum owner period, as at some point EVERYONE is going to violate the G TOS.
See how much of a hit G takes in the grand scheme if that was to happen.

We need Adsense Advisor to help us out on this one, it truly affects thousands of publishers every minute of every day.

[Jenstar]

AdSense can be self-policing. All it takes is one member to report a terms/policies violation on a forum.