Forum Moderators: martinibuster
AdSense is encouraging I accept the new Terms and Conditions for local currency.
I don't think I will have much of a choice but to accept these sooner or later.
Just wanting some feedback from people in the know, or whom have experience with converting to local currency.
Aside from exchange rate being favourable and unfavourable with US calculations, will going local negatively effect income? Ie, any significant increase / drop in income, or should it stay the same?
Cheers.
It always seemed the worst rate was at the end of a month - just when EFT was due.
Now your/my earnings are converted and locked in on a daily basis. We get the good with the bad.
On the whole we are better off I believe. Just wish we didn't have such a strong $A. Loved the years of $0.52 when you could almost roughly double all affiliate earnings.
I have seen no negative effects on income since I changed to AUD. I actually find it quite convenient to view income in AUD straight away when I log in to check stats etc
It is still too early.
A few more months down the track and i am willing to bet that earnings will be negatively affected. Non US publishers will probably see the same monthly click numbers BUT this time in their own local currency and not USD, effectively earning less. (example instead of seeing 100 clicks = US$140.00 ....you'll now see 100 clicks = AU$140.00.....effectivly earning much less per click) . G however will probably continue to charge US advertisers in USD and gobble that little bit of extra.
How can a publisher tell if that last click was really US$0.14-US$16.00 and not AU$0.14-$AU16.00. You cant because all you will be able to see once they force the switch is the click amount in your own local currency.
To expect G to honestly display and pay the correct conversion as paid by the advertiser in US$ or, Euro etc. would be extremely naive.
In my opinion, this forcing of switch to local currency is yet another little bright "smart pricing" trick masquerading as a "convenient feature" and is designed to increase G's profits via large differences in currency exchange. Nothing more nothing less.
Bookmark this page. You may want to read it again in 5-6 months from now.
A few more months down the track and i am willing to bet that earnings will be negatively affected. Non US publishers will probably see the same monthly click numbers BUT this time in their own local currency and not USD, effectively earning less.
I'd gladly take the bet, but there is unfortunately no way to settle it.
Anyway, if they did this in the the eurozone, they'd have to pay us more, not less, so I guess there goes your theory anyway.
The conversion Google has done in the past are based on a fair exchange rate, actually better than if one let one's bank do it form a USD check. Why would they change that ?
Google is also doing this because they are forced to do it in some cases (e.g. the EU wants them to keep their eurozone profits in the EU, not siphon it off to the US, I'm sure the aussie tax man has a similar attitude.)
Of course the conspiracy theorists will find fuel for their fire in this and anything else, nothing new.
if an adwords customer bid one pound sterling, for example, and google took a 50% cut, then 50p would go to us. it doesn't matter what the US exchange rate is.
otherwise they'd have to change the UK bid into US dollars and then change it back into UK pounds when they paid the publisher. seems like bit of a rigmarole.
(and @swa66 - it makes no change to the .au taxman. We were dealing with Google US, now we are dealing with Google Ireland. Still foreign :))
There is no change - we never know what they will pay us, we still don't know
That's true for all things AdSense, even also for places like Amazon and Commission Junction etc.
Affiliates have to place blind faith and trust in the systems in place.
There are simply no means to verify or audit what your reports tell you.
Anyway, if they did this in the the eurozone, they'd have to pay us more, not less, so I guess there goes your theory anyway.
Perhaps the Euro is not a good example due to its current strength against the US currency, but what about all other currencies where the US$ is stronger. Example, click payout at around US$0.10 (Approx AU$0.14 after conversation) will probably start paying only AU$0.10 once the switch is fully complete...in this example the AU publishers lost $0.04 per click.
presumably adwords customer pay out in local currency as well, so there's no reason to think that google will mess us around on the rate of exchange.
What about websites owned by non US publishers and targeting/receiving US traffic and US advertisers (which is the case with many many webmasters/websites). In their case advertisers are paying in local currency ($USD) while the publisher gets paid in it's own local currency and not necessarily the correct conversion. How can one tell he/she gets shafted yet again except for comparing the monthly totals after conversions and noticing yet another decline.
Of course the conspiracy theorists will find fuel for their fire in this and anything else, nothing new.
Yah....two years ago adsense used to pay approx $1800-2000 p/m. And now a mare $250 p/m for the same amount of traffic and exposure. Silly conspiracy theory alright.
There is no change - we never know what they will pay us, we still don't know
IanCP
That's true for all things AdSense, even also for places like Amazon and Commission Junction etc.
Well, not quite.
On true affiliate sites, eg CJ and Amazon, you get told that a sale was for $X of which you got $y.
On Adsense we get told we get z¢ of... amount unknown.
So its much easier to follow the trending on the other schemes than on Google because we have massively more information there.
While of course Google isn't doing CPA, still... nowhere near the same information. I've never understood why they hide so much. What are they afraid of?
Just this week, on one of the affiliate networks, I had a merchant with a 31 day approval who after 45 days hadn't approved a sale. Contacted the network who nudged the merchant and it was approved.
The equivalent on Adsense is - impossible. We have no information on what is happening. If our average EPC drops we can't know if we've been smart priced, or the bids have dropped or... what? Google doesn't help us - we are on our own. I think its a shame. I think they would have a much higher quality of affiliate if they did treat it like a partnership, and I think they would make more money (and so would we).
How can one tell he/she gets shafted yet again except for comparing the monthly totals after conversions and noticing yet another decline
Won't work on monthly totals. The conversion today is supposed to be at yesterdays average rate.
What you lose on the swings you pick up on the round abouts.
In Google We Trust.
Example, click payout at around US$0.10 (Approx AU$0.14 after conversation) will probably start paying only AU$0.10 once the switch is fully complete...
*If* they want to cheat, they have dozens of other -easier- ways to do it than on conversion of currency.
The bottom line is simple, in any currency: either it's enough money or it's not, in which case you remove the ads from your websites and move on.
And why would that be ? Based on what ?
Based on 5 years of experience with this program. The "changes" never helped earnings...quite the opposite...with every change came another big chunk of earnings cut. Watch the next one to roll out once the switch is fully complete.
This time however it will be even harder to tell what is going on...is it smart pricing? the economy? cheap advertises? what?
IMO, the currency display thing is just another convenient layer of smoke screen and will negatively affect non US publishers.
Based on 5 years of experience with this program. The "changes" never helped earnings
Removing my publisher hat, I can see how this would be a sensible outcome - what is Google's long term goal? To please their customers. Who are their customers here? The adwords buyers.
If you agree that each change increases the efficiencies of adsense (arguable, but lets assume it for the moment) then one would expect that conditions would improve for the merchants, leading to a price drop overall, over time.
I don't like it, but it makes sense.
Who are their customers here? The adwords buyers
I would disagree. I've always seen them in the role of both a commission agent and a service provider interspersed between both a publisher and an advertiser.
As with all things ethical, it is necessary that all participants get a fair go without favour to either.
If you agree that each change increases the efficiencies of adsense.............leading to a price drop overall, over time.
I disagree, i run adwords campaigns for a number of clients, some are medium size companies and i did not see any evidence of this. On the contrary cpc prices just got more expensive over time and guess who's year over year income grow exponentially and in direct relation to the huge decline in earnings many publishers are experiencing. Mighty G!
I disagree, i run adwords campaigns for a number of clients
I've always seen them in the role of both a commission agent and a service provider ...
I think we are more of a supplier. So we get cursed at and paid sometimes, late ( ;) ) but not supported :(
The only way I can explain Google's 'black box' attitude is that they don't see the ads as anything to do with us, they are *Google's* ads, and we should be thankful they deign to allow us to show them, and partake of their mighty profits. Too cynical? Maybe...
[edited by: encyclo at 1:15 am (utc) on July 29, 2009]
[edit reason] fixed quote tag [/edit]
Example, click payout at around US$0.10 (Approx AU$0.14 after conversation) will probably start paying only AU$0.10 once the switch is fully complete...
And why would that be ? Based on what ?
Based on 5 years of experience with this program.
Nonesense.
The proof from the past is that they give better exchange rates than the banks do.
Overall reduction of income can have _so_ many reasons, that it's impossible to use that as a proof of Google cheating.
If you accuse them that they will cheat you better have solid proof ...
If you accuse them that they will cheat you better have solid proof
My granny said something applicable here about false accusations "If I'm going to have the name, I'm going to have the game" meaning if everyone thinks they're cheating they might as well just go ahead and do it.
I don't think they are and as swa66 pointed out, you need proof before making accusations.
It is not cheating. It is collecting in one currency and paying "whatever" in another, while the recipient have a harder time trying to identify the decline in earnings (read black "secretive" box). It is not cheating, it is simply a legitimate business move designed to increase their profits for next call.
So you claim to have proof in that they will "cheat" with exchange rates based on the last 5 years ? Nonesense.
Solid prof? what a joke. Try using your brain, the writing is on the wall. I never said they cheated before with "exchange rates". I said they always have cleaver names and "changes" designed to increase their own bottom line while leaving publishers with less and less crumbs. Consistently!...that is what i said.
The proof from the past is that they give better exchange rates than the banks do
That was my precise experience when I was able to switch over to EFT.
I'd guesstimate I have been about a net 1 - 2% better off since without taking into account bank fees.
Who said cheating ?
I suggest you reread you own posts in this thread. You might not have used the word cheating, but to quote you: "To expect G to honestly display [...] would be extremely naive.", "yet another little bright "smart pricing" trick", "designed to increase G's profits via large differences in currency exchange", ...
This is getting very silly.
Absolutely. LOL....you are insisting on putting words into my mouth. Try re-reading my posts yourself.
Describing the above mentioned practice as "cheating" would be the same as accusing a supermarket for "cheating" for not selling the merchandise at cost and for cutting a profit. My point being, it is not cheating. it is a legitimate business move which unfortunately will negatively affect many non US publishers.
But hey....enough said. Only time will really tell. I have bookmarked this thread and will revisit it in 5-6 months time. I hate to be right but willing to eat my hat if I'm wrong. I'm sure that we will have another great name for the decline by then.....something like refinement of "smart pricing", or "bad market sectors" or "further worsening of the economy" or some other convenient excuse while google will continue to beat earnings estimates.
It is collecting in one currency and paying "whatever" in another
Let's face it - the issue is probably not with the currency (except for that VAT issue for some of us); the issue is -and has always been- the general intransparency of the Adsense box
In other words: they do not cheat us; they just pay whatever they like.
In other words: they do not cheat us; they just pay whatever they like.
Correct!..... BUT while most publisher (and I'm talking about old AS veterans) had a more or less sense of approx what the "whatever" should or used to be, there comes an extra new layer of "super whatever" designed to thicken the smoke screen even more.
It's a fact that GA income has decreased over the good years we've published their ads - or at least significantly since late 2007.
There are various possible reasons ranging from smart pricing, unfavourable transfer rates, global economy's effect on CTR, etc etc.
In the category we compete in, we were one of the first and few to be running GA for a while. The category we compete in is now saturated with sites with GA's on them. I suspect that would effect our bottom line and spread thinner CT value - to some degree.
Admittedly we were much more agressive in maximising returns by whatever means involved, but we've been complacent for some time, which doesn't help.
That said, I can't complain knowing that more can always be done to increase GA revenue.
All of the above considered, and all things being equal I was generally wanting to know from people who had switched over to local currency, if there was a significant drop in GA, or if it was relatively the same.
I appreciate all responses, and even speculation and your hypotheses are welcome. Certainly a good read.
As for my next action, I will have no choice to but to accept the new Terms of Use soon. At least I'll have a first-hand account of the outcome.
except for that VAT issue for some of us
There is NO VAT issue unless you're in Ireland, and AFAIK the change isn't available in Ireland yet ...
@web_speed
Just going to reply to this accusation:
you are insisting on putting words into my mouth
But that's not important.
The important part is that declining revenue for individual publishers is simply NOT RELEVANT in this discussion of what currency to show your reports in and of what legal entity to have your contract with.
We cannot determine "google's share", "the price the advertisers pay", or anything else from our individual revenue, there are far too many parameters we don't know to even guess at it.
E.g. all that is needed to reduce our income -on average- to half of what it was a year ago is to have no changes at all (literally: none, the new ones don't even need to add ads to their sites at all), but a doubling of the number of publishers. Same amount of money to be divided over double the recipients ...
E.g. all that is needed to reduce our income -on average- significantly of what it was a year ago is to have a very few advertisers leave and hence create more offered space for ads than there is demand from advertisers, plummeting the prices in the "auctions" Google holds for the spots.
Also that transparency many are after is irrelevant in this: The currency of the reporting is made in does not create nor remove any transparency. You'll still get paid what you get paid and you still won't have more control, if it's in US dollars or your local currency will not make any difference at all.
There is one good thing in it though: Google's tax info is not required anymore once you're dealing with Google Ireland (it was for me at least). Which does mean no risk for future interactions with the IRS to get an EIN [which I have for other reasons anyway], no choice to make which W-8 form to file (Google had that easier than most other US companies), no "alien" tax rules (for a non-US resident). So that's good, even very good from my viewpoint!
Funny how a cut&paste of what you wrote can put words in your mouth ...
You simply didn't "get" what i was implying in my posts. Never mind, i don't expect everyone to understand that. Naivety is quite common around here, it is not all black or white and one should learn to read between the lines sometimes.
Peace!
