Forum Moderators: martinibuster
In any case, October glitch or not, have you ever been smartpriced (i.e. had drastically decreased revenues for no apparent reason) and if so, how long did it take for your earnings to start improving (if at all)?
If I have been smart priced, then the advertisers on Adwords are not seeing the same performance my direct advertisers are or the performance is not to Goggles par.
I continue to be absolutely amazed that otherwise smart people here continue to misunderstand what google and others have explained about smartpricing.
Your ACTUAL conversion rate isn't the only determination of SP. What IS is the algo's prediction of how well your site WILL convert.
Direct performance is clearly only a partial contributor, because, quite simply, too many advertisers don't share their conversion rates with google.
Other on and off page factors are used.
Direct performance is clearly only a partial contributor, because, quite simply, too many advertisers don't share their conversion rates with google.
Also, demand by direct advertisers doesn't necessarily correlate directly (or even closely) with advertiser ROI for pay-per-click, keyword-targeted text ads. Different types of advertisers may have different objectives: I could cite any number of brand-name display-ad campaigns that have low clickthrough rates (and probably low conversion rates) but continue to run month after month, at decent CPMs, because the advertisers are looking to build brand awareness within selected audiences.
I'm interested in hearing what on and off page factors outside of conversions other people think play a role with smartpricing. Any direct info from Google? I'm skeptical.
I don't understand what you are skeptical about. How exactly do you think smartpricing is computed, given the huge number of advertisers who do not use google to track conversions?
Either a) they use conversion data for your site (which is useless for everyone since there's not enough accurate info) b) they do it randomly (like, doh) or c) they use other on and off page factors.
This is basically a no brainer.
What they do is use the conversion data they DO have in aggregate to build profiles of sites/accounts that convert and sites that don't, then match YOUR site/account to those profiles. That's an oversimplification, but it's close enough for rock and roll, and us. (It's the closest we're going to get). Your ACTUAL performance data isn't even needed. This is a scalable solution.
Or, of course, if you think Google lies and cheats, none of this discussion is needed.
I'm interested in hearing what on and off page factors outside of conversions other people think play a role with smartpricing. Any direct info from Google?
See "How Smart Pricing Works" at:
[adwords.google.com...]
This could involve analyzing text/keywords on the page, monitoring user behaviour, monitoring traffic sources (search engines good, YouTube & MySpace bad), monitoring demographics, making manual adjustments based on the perceived function of a site, etc.
One thing I personally DON'T think is much of a factor is "quality". Google isn't in the business of rewarding webmasters for putting up great websites; they're in the business of providing traffic to advertisers and that's the end of the stick that they're going to be focused on.
If I have been smart priced, then the advertisers on Adwords are not seeing the same performance my direct advertisers are or the performance is not to Goggles par.
I've noticed that competing ads have a negative impact on AdSense revenue.
I've noticed that competing ads have a negative impact on AdSense revenue.
If I have been smart priced, then the advertisers on Adwords are not seeing the same performance my direct advertisers are
This is the issue to me in a nutshell. I sell direct advertising on my sites. My advertisers are happy and when one contract expires, they sign up for another. I also promote adsense referrals and do well with them. If I wasn't such a chicken I'd do referrals network wide. I have never doubted that my traffic converts. It was converting for me long before adsense came along and continues to convert even after adding adsense. People come to many of my sites intent on buying a product. I see this reflected in the keywords they use to find me and the money they spend once they do. I have no doubt I've been smart priced. No, I can't prove that. What I CAN do is look at my average EPC 3 years ago and compare it to my average EPC today. It's down 80%. What would cause that? Fluctuations in the advertiser base? Advertisers pulling out of my niche? Not likely. It's a very competitive, growing niche and new money pours into it all the time. There is no other explanation as to why my income has dropped like it has other than smart pricing.
So how do you know if you've been smart priced? When all other factors that you are able to gauge have remained consistent, yet your income falls drastically, you've been smart priced.
What they do is use the conversion data they DO have in aggregate to build profiles of sites/accounts that convert and sites that don't, then match YOUR site/account to those profiles. That's an oversimplification, but it's close enough for rock and roll, and us. (It's the closest we're going to get). Your ACTUAL performance data isn't even needed. This is a scalable solution.
I like that. How would YOU write a smart price algo? That's as good as any.
same day my avg. cl. dropped ;)
if this continues:
dec 15 2008 - avg. cl. 2.5c
dec 16 2008 - avg. cl. 1.25c - i'm leaving adsense ;)
[edited by: HowYesNo at 1:40 pm (utc) on Jan. 17, 2008]
How would YOU write a smart price algo? That's as good as any.
First, I'd have staff use historical data to identify representative high-conversion and low-conversion sites. I'd then feed the URLs of those high-conversion and low-conversion sites into a computer and let software identify the common characteristics of each group. That would be a good start toward creating a scoring algorithm for smart pricing (and even for the percentage payout, if I wanted to reward sites that perform while discouraging sites that don't).
One thing I personally DON'T think is much of a factor is "quality". Google isn't in the business of rewarding webmasters for putting up great websites; they're in the business of providing traffic to advertisers and that's the end of the stick that they're going to be focused on.
Yes, but you've got to remember that any well-run company has to consider long-term strategy, not just short-term goals. The people who manage AdSense on a day-to-day basis may be concerned primarily with revenues, but the higher-ups need to look at the bigger picture, including factors such as:
- How does the proliferation of junk "AdSense sites" affect the quality, brand image, and operating costs of Google Search?
- How does the AdSense "user experience" affect ad performance over time, and what can be done to ensure that users don't simply tune out AdSense ads (thereby eroding Google's advertiser base and revenues)?
- If "AdSense greed" results in a proliferation of low-quality sites, how does that affect the health and future of the Web as an information medium (whether for the sake of Google's profits or the greater good)?
It's worth remembering that Google introduced landing-page quality scores on the AdWords side to protect the Google Search "user experience." In doing so, Google encouraged the departure of existing advertisers, meaning that Google willingly gave up revenue in the short term or the sake of its long-term strategy. Based on that precedent, it's reasonable to assume that Google isn't going to throw away the equity that it's built up in the AdSense network. On the contrary: Now that Google has an overwhelming market share in CPC advertising, it can afford to squeeze out publishers who (in Google's estimation) aren't good for the long-term health of the network.
