Forum Moderators: martinibuster
When will Google finally extend the 200 domains filter. I can't fight this .info crap any more with this limitation.
At least those dumb MFAs owners identify themselves with .info so it's not time consuming to find them.
[edited by: SEOPTI at 2:38 pm (utc) on Aug. 16, 2007]
Parked domains I see almost always have "search results" that are sponsored links. Fraud.
Do you also see that parked domain landers, at least for Google feeds, always place the words "Sponsored Links" at the top of the links that are displayed?
There are landers that also have search results, that are not paid links, that are generally added to the lower 1/3 of the domain landing pages. These links likely throw off a bit of free traffic, at least for those webmasters who are lucky enough or savvy enough to get their website's link to appear.
IMHO, if you're getting a lot of junk ads now, you'd probably be getting fewer ads period without MFAs, ads for parked domains, or whatever, either because you're being filtered by advertisers or (more likely) because there aren't enough desirable ads and clicks to satisfy all the publishers who are competing for clicks on your site's keyphrases.
In other words, it's all about supply and demand.
In other words, it's all about supply and demand.
I think that basically you are right, and you are right for the umpteenth time. Of course it is about "supply and demand", of course anybody is free to leave Adsense at any time, of course we do have no say in what is being displayed, of course Google can't do wrong.
The point in this discussion, however, is QUALITY and TRUST.
Google whacked the Adwords>Adsense arbitrageurs, but lets in zillions of parked domains? All this talk about "Quality Score" and "looking to enhance the users browsing experience" is demasked as utter nonsense if they let these guys exploit the system.
OK, throw out all the parked, MFA, thin-content sites. There will be fewer ads. So what? If that's the only way to enhance the user experience, then that should be the answer. As a user, I do not think that further littering the web with this garbage is desirable. Now, if Google were honest, they would at least admit that this whole quality discussion is just PR and openly say so.
Also, I do agree with some previous poster that Adsense is poorly run. They spend resources on giving us a message central that is not needed, while an improved filter is not being implemented. I feel that the time has come for a strong competitor to Adsense that really has QUALITY and TRANSPARENCY written all over the place, both for advertisers and publishers.
Anyway, that's just my $0.02.
Google whacked the Adwords>Adsense arbitrageurs, but lets in zillions of parked domains?
I think there's a difference between parked domains and cookie cutter MFAs that display the same articles as all the other cookie cutter domains. Cookie cutter websites just say "blah blah blah" with some worthless copied-n-pasted article and then plaster your screen with ads. At least the parked domains aren't trying to fool you into believing there's anything worthwhile there.
Instead, when that person clicks on such carefully crafted ads - be it Adwords or AdSense "ads" - that person simply lands on another page full of ads. "The answer" is the ads. "The product" is more ads for the product. "The comparison" is comparing more ads about the product. And so it goes.
So, the issue of "quality" does come into play. The "dearth of quality" is measured by the disparity between the consumer expectation created by the ad - the implicit message that the issue will be resolved upon delivery - and the actual experience upon arrival: Frustration, unfulfilled expectation, etc., arising from the fact that all that the visitor encounters is more ads.
It is the verbal inducement, in the ads themselves, that is the treachery. It is not a stretch to call such ads "lies". At the very least they are a form of deceptive inducement to action. The only true statement, for the business model to "be legit", would have to be "Click on this ad to view more ads related to this ad". However, such "truth" would be unlikely to excite a great deal of clicking activity by information consumers.
IF the "ads to more ads" business model is going to be tolerated then, at the very least, there ought to be a requirement of compulsory disclosure: "Click on THIS AD to see MORE ADS related to THIS AD".
I'm sure that would work. I mean, it's a big world and I'm sure there's folks who would just have to know. ;-/
OTOH, unless you have just emerged from a cave you know to a certainty by now, 2007 that acts of direct navigation - tying generic subject matter domains into the browser address bar - may lead to - is certain to lead if you do it often enought - to domain landers with ads, not websites.
The only web experienced adult alive in 2007 who is "deceived" by direct navigation is the person in whose mind the mere act of parking domains is a deception.
That person's mind likely has other quirks . . as well as virtues. ;-P
THAT person may also be the same person who, when he or she sees an ad with the message "Click on this Ad to see More Ads related to THIS ad", will click on the ad due to some irresistible impulse. :-P
[edited by: Webwork at 6:15 pm (utc) on Aug. 30, 2007]
Google whacked the Adwords>Adsense arbitrageurs, but lets in zillions of parked domains?
Are there really "zillions" of parked domains being advertised with AdSense ads?
If so, that may not be desirable from your point of view or mine, but again, Google may feel that market forces (such as advertiser filters and the forthcoming site-targeted CPC ads) are a better solution than making arbitrary decisions about what kinds of sites should be able to advertise. That's Google's call to make, whether or not we like it. If research or advertiser feedback shows that ads for parked domains are bad for Google, standards will be raised. If few people care, don't expect change.
...tying generic subject matter domains into the browser address bar - may lead to - is certain to lead if you do it often enought - to domain landers with ads, not websites.
Or worse :) Porn sites have been doing this longer than MFAs.
Excellent analysis. Thanks for that.
EFV:
Are there really "zillions" of parked domains being advertised with AdSense ads?
Yes.
On my tiny site I just look at the U.S., the U.K., and Canadian markets (geotargeting, preview tool). I can come up almost instantly with at least 50 sites within a day or so that lead to pages affiliated with one of the big parking providers. When I look at more exotic markets like Russia, Turkey, or Argentina, the problem gets worse. Fortunately my major traffic is coming from the U.S., the U.K., and Canada. This leads me to believe that domainers are registering domains for every possible keyword under the sun, and, as nobody in their right mind would type-in such domains, they start to advertise with Google. And they do so by writing misleading ad copy as webwork already pointed out.
This problem is HUGE in my view.
that may not be desirable from your point of view or mine, but again, Google may feel that market forces (such as advertiser filters and the forthcoming site-targeted CPC ads) are a better solution than making arbitrary decisions about what kinds of sites should be able to advertise. That's Google's call to make, whether or not we like it.
Yeah, that's all true.
But whether they like it or not, we can discuss the issues of the program here.
I think, like many here, that we as publishers should get the same tools as the advertisers. IF Google were interested in "letting the market forces work" (if!) then they should BALANCE the power between publishers and advertisers. This is clearly not happening right now.
Advertisers get all the tools, publishers get FEWER or MEDIOCRE tools. Remember when Google decided to not let publishers click-track the landing pages? That hurt. Why do we still have a filter limited to 200 slots? Why can't we filter based on ad copy? Why can't we filter based on advertiser? Such tools would help to balance the power.
Also, I would like to add that one of the major points in this discussion is the incapability of Google sales force and their marketing unit. And because they are so weak, they can not sell ads to those who decide to advertise with parking providers AT A HIGHER PRICE.
I mean, how silly is that? Genuine advertisers are wlling to spend more and actually to pay the whole system as outlined before (i.e. Yahoo!, the parking page, the domainer, Google, and the Google publisher) when they could easily strip out three parties and save money. If I can't pitch that into an advertiser and get their money directly, then I should enter the "worst sales team ever" contest. (And it would be no surprise to me if they came out with the prize.)
Google sales force seems to be satisfied with just the pennies they get from parked providers, apparently incapable to tap the real advertisers that are willing to shell out a lot more for a visitor. WE as publishers (as well as Google shareholders) are taking the burden. Why? Why? Why?
OTOH, unless you have just emerged from a cave you know to a certainty by now, 2007 that acts of direct navigation - tying generic subject matter domains into the browser address bar - may lead to - is certain to lead if you do it often enought - to domain landers with ads, not websites.
Um, I just don't use direct address navigation unless I am already familiar with the domain name and trust it (I type in 'www.google.com' or 'www.gmail.com' but I never type in a keyword or generic name in the browser address bar just to see what happens.)
Why? Because I don't want to end up on an unknown site, EVER. Visiting unknown and untrusted sites in 2007 seems (and indeed, back in 2003, or 2000 seemed) a bit naive, and potentially dangerous.
I admit I'm very much atypical as a computer user, though. I've seen other people do it and it just floors me. No wonder so many people's computers are infected with spyware/malware.
domainers are registering domains for every possible keyword under the sun, and, as nobody in their right mind would type-in such domains, they start to advertise with Google
Again I seem to be playing it all wrong, creating content, building links, blah blah blah.
As in many domainers thread, I leave it with the feeling that creating real, useful content is for "suckers". Just a vibe I get.
As in many domainers thread, I leave it with the feeling that creating real, useful content is for "suckers". Just a vibe I get.
Yeah, I am upset by these practices, too, and I even had been considering to join these guys. After all, it's not that darn difficult to make money there.
However, I re-considered.
I think the market will turn towards quality. It simply has to. If you look at the ads running on the parked sites as "sponsored results", you will possibly be quite astonished that they are able to capture the big guy's revenues. There have been reports that these clicks cost as much as $0.60 whereas we are seeing between $0.07 and $0.20 - i.e. up to $0.53 are just wasted (from advertisers point of view). The conclusion is clear: the money is there (unfortunately Google is unable to capture it properly).
Also, quality advertisers need fresh unique quality content. If nobody is creating this, because they can not afford it, and all ads lead to some sort of parked pages or thin-content sites, then end consumers will stop clicking the ads. Why click on an ad that promises you something (a product, a piece of information) when all you see is just more ads, and more ads, and more ads. This annoys consumers already today. So, if you are running a quality web site, then you will probably want to see quality ads as well.
And by throwing out some of the arbitrage guys, Google silently admitted that there is a problem with arbitrage. However, they have not yet admitted the scope of the problem (it's HUGE).
I am absolutely convinced that building unique quality content is the best long term strategy for sustainable and predictable revenues. Tomorrow Google might decide to show the remaining arbitrageurs the door (for whatever reason). They will be left with nothing (well, apart from the fat savings account, the villas, the Ferraris, and so on) but a bunch of useless domains.
Also, at some point there will be an ad network that focuses only on quality instead of quantity. Then you will simply move your good content away from Adsense over to the new guys and earn the big bucks. I am just surprised that noone has been claiming that niche by now. But, again, it will happen. Maybe not tomorrow, but perhaps already in 2008? Or 2009? There is a market for high quality online ads. The money is there, and someone will capture it.
This is inevitable, and Google will have a hard time finding any quality publishers then to publish the arbitrage ads. And this will damage Google big time.
As in many domainers thread, I leave it with the feeling that creating real, useful content is for "suckers". Just a vibe I get.
No, not "for suckers", simply "not for domainers". Subtle but important distinction.
Domainer perspective: "Son, if you're going to be in this business then stay focused."
True domainers do one thing and do it exceedingly well in a few cases: they aggregate web traffic by careful selection of direct navigation domains. "True domainers" are not of the mind that content creators are suckers. No sir, not at all.
Dyed in the wool domainers are of the mind that if a person wishes to succeed in the domain traffic game then that person needs to settle on, and focus on, one one model: be an aggregator of traffic from domains and stay focused!
(Domainer to neophyte) "Son, you're a coal miner (traffic domains), of the raw material and energy source (baseline traffic) of the WWW. Stick to what you know or want to know and don't go off flirting with the idea that you're going to be the next Henry Ford, building all those cars. It'll get you killed if you continue to operate in the mines."
You get that? That perceived attitude? It's not about "you" - the content creator. That perceived "domainer attitude" is about "being one of us" -> the domain traffic aggregator. It's not that it's dumb or stupid to be a content creator. It's that it's dumb and stupid to attempt to chase 2 models at the same time IF you want to play in the big leagues of domaining.
I have never met a domainer that held the belief that content creators "are suckers". I have, however, met folks whose choice is to "not work that hard" ~ not spend hours writing and rewriting content only to have someone rip off your material, or spend hours writing only to have search engines not give a hoot since "you're not an authority", etc. Such a view or attitude is not so much an act of condescending as it is a reflection of a lifestyle and business model choice. "I wish to be the master of my traffic - and my income - by wise address selection of billboard domains and Park Avenue addresses.
Yeah, I am upset by these practices, too, and I even had been considering to join these guys.
Bingo! We have a winner!
You see, I have no interest in you selling your soul and coming over to the dark side. I do have an interest in living in a win-win world.
No one - at least not me - has said "You can only practice the dark art of domaining UNLESS you take the 'domainer's oath' to never mix practices and mingle with those cough cough shudder damnable content creators!"
On the contrary, I have been presenting and promoting the idea - for years - that anyone can and should "play the domain game" and use the dark arts of domaining to build a portfolio of content loving websites that will carry with them their own - owned - traffic source.
You see, content creators can also "be smart" and exploit the inherent traffic in a wisely chosen topical web address that will suit you and suit your urge to merge content with traffic. And such domains and web addresses are still "out there". And, as in 1999, there are still folks who are registering and putting those domains in their domain bank for the day when they have the time or the market is right or circumstances will better enable them to move ahead with development.
Put domaining in context this way: What good is all your wonderful content without any traffic? AND, if you're so convinced that your quality content matters then why, for heaven's sake, wouldn't you do everything in your power to bring traffic to your content? Which includes seeking a topically relevant domain, for a website address, which domain might also be wisely chosen for it's traffic pre-loading?
If you go back and read my "issue threads" in the Domain Forum you will even see that I have been urging developers and content creator to get into the game of acquiring traffic or billboard domains, building a website, using that website to help local businesses market themselves, and then possibly flipping / selling the website at some future date to a local business that wishes to assume control of the traffic.
After watching threads on "this topic" for years I can tell from the occassional loose-lipped admisssion OR from the "growing silence" that a number of folks have seen the light of the dark side.
No one says that you have to "domain" just like a domainer.
Though I can imagine there's a few domainers that might wish you didn't. ;0/
[edited by: Webwork at 12:05 pm (utc) on Aug. 31, 2007]
This reminds me way back down here in the same spot when MFA owners used to call it an opportunity in a market inefficiency!
So far as "bad people", well, they are a rather troubling and tiresome lot, and they can wear one out, so I think I'll stop laboring to do some good and, instead, go take a nap.
Please wake me up when all the bad people are gone. :-P
So... parked advertising for some topics pays better than adsense. Therefore, buy adsense ads and send your visitors to a parked domain.
Again I seem to be playing it all wrong, creating content, building links, blah blah blah.
It may be "all wrong" if you believe that AdSense is your only possible source of revenue. But if you're building your site and your future around AdSense, you've got it all wrong anyway--regardless of whether AdWords/AdSense allows ads on (or ads for) parked domains.
But if you're building your site and your future around AdSense, you've got it all wrong anyway
