Forum Moderators: martinibuster
* Federal minimum wage is: $5.85 or $46.80 for an 8 hour day ($11.7K/year)
* Home Depot worker $7-$20 or $56-$160 for an 8 hour day. ($14K-$40K/year)
* Web designer annual salary (from Salary.com) $54K - $73K/year
Or hourly ranging from $27/hr ($216/day) to $36.5/hr ($292/day)
Some of you are now probably smiling that you earn more than the average webmaster while others are probably scrambling to get an application at Home Depot.
Now if you're satisfied that your website earns enough to make you happy with AdSense there is a downside: NO BENEFITS. Some of those minimum wage workers may even get some basic benefits, such as access to 401K or health insurance, which are elusive to many living off AdSense.
Don't despair, there are some cost effective solutions to getting good collective benefits by hiring some human resources outsourcing services or joining professional organizations like IEEE that offer various group insurance plans as well.
The trick is that the HR outsourcing firms usually require a minimum of 5 employees before they'll handle your company so those loners of you out there could probably band together to form a co-op under an LLC just to get benefits at much lower costs than are available to individuals.
Just remember, making $100K/year ($50/hour) is only an average of $11.42/hour for a website running 24x7! ;)
man, by the hour, that seems low.
On the other getting "$11.42/hour" .... while you're sleeping.....
A 401K would be nice. However, at first I was putting my AdSense revenue straight into my IRA so I wouldn't have to pay tax on the money. But I'm already at the yearly limit for the IRA, so I guess Uncle Sam will get a chunk after all.
If I had a website and AdSense twenty years ago, I definitely would have avoided a full time job. But now i have a wife and a daughter to support, and the *best* thing about a stable job is that it's reliable income. Website affiliate revenue on the other hand can't really be counted on. By that I mean in the long, long run. I know I will be getting paid by Google at the end of this month, and I know how much. Next month could be more or less, although I will still get a payment. But 5 years from now will they still have this program? Who can say.... But my daughter will still need my support 5 years from now, and I'm pretty sure the company I work for will still be around.
It helps that I really like my job, too. Most of the time I am typing code but at the moment they are paying me to type this message :) If I was working for myself, I would be doing exactly the same thing as a freelancer, but without the stability. Also, I probably wouldn't feel like going on message boards like this one. I would probably be constantly chasing the next gig. Been there and done that...
let's compare AdSense earnings to other occupations
Are you suggesting that there are individuals whose sole income is from AdSense and that there is no significant expense to offset that revenue (i.e. AdWords)? That means no one else is providing for that person in any way? I doubt it.
If their website traffic can generate that much AdSense revenue, I think it's very likely that the income is benefitting more than one person (i.e., others involved in that business) and that AdSense is not the sole revenue producer.
Well for one thing, HR isn't really necessary for a small office. I work in an office with a staff of 8, including myself, and we all get along well enough. We make our own arrangements for insurance and then get reimbursed by the company
But you could get that insurance much cheaper and put more money back into your pocket.
Why give money away if you don't need to?
Some of the firms I've looked at supply access to multiple Health, Dental and Vision plans
Group Life, Accident and Disability Insurance, flexible pre-tax spending accounts, 401 K, Workers Comp, etc. etc. beside providing payroll services including W-2, 1099 and a whole lot more.
I was surprised how much less expensive it all was compared to my time and costs to attempt it on my own.
Are you suggesting that there are individuals whose sole income is from AdSense and that there is no significant expense to offset that revenue (i.e. AdWords)? That means no one else is providing for that person in any way? I doubt it.
Um, YES!
Quite a few in this forum do quite well with organic traffic only that aren't involved in AdWords arbitrage.
Actually, I could exist SOLELY on AdSense alone but I have other revenue streams as well.
Why leave money on the table?
If their website traffic can generate that much AdSense revenue, I think it's very likely that the income is benefitting more than one person (i.e., others involved in that business) and that AdSense is not the sole revenue producer.
High traffic and good revenue generation capability don't require more than one person if you do it right.
The thread is drifting, to get back on topic there are ways to get the benefits of a 'real' job and still live on AdSense, just takes some research but the options exist.
[edited by: incrediBILL at 9:39 pm (utc) on Aug. 6, 2007]
Just remember, making $100K/year ($50/hour) is only an average of $11.42/hour for a website running 24x7! ;)
The downside is that you can be hit by things somewhat out of your control. If the power goes off at Home Depot, you're still on the clock (until your boss gives up and sends you home). But if the power goes off at your co-location center, you're losing money until your site's back up. (Of course, this can be lessened by doing good research on your co-lo company ahead of time, having multiple locations, etc.)
Some people have short attention spans and working 8 hours straight is too painful for them. So the flexibility of being able to work a couple hours here, another couple there, is worth more than just the monetary comparison. Other people don't have the self-discipline to work unstructured hours and need the 9-6 structure to function.
Other people work best when most other people are sleeping, and there aren't too many Home Depot-type jobs offering hours like those.
So while the hourly wage and benefits comparison is interesting, there are a lot of intangilbe benefits that aren't factored into the comparison. (And not everyone places the same weight on each factor.)
[edited by: LifeinAsia at 9:52 pm (utc) on Aug. 6, 2007]
--Now if you're satisfied that your website earns enough to make you happy with AdSense there is a downside: NO BENEFITS. Some of those minimum wage workers may even get some basic benefits, such as access to 401K or health insurance, which are elusive to many living off AdSense.--
Depends where you live. Here in Europe most people get free healthcare even if they're homeless and sleeping under a bridge.
Depends where you live. Here in Europe most people get free healthcare even if they're homeless and sleeping under a bridge.
Obviously with my examples I was primarily addressing the US market where we get to <cough> decide how to <cough> spend our <wheeze> healthcare dollars.
But if the power goes off at your co-location center, you're losing money until your site's back up.
That is offset by making money while you sleep.
You won't wake up and suddenly find your adsense site has fired you.
Not true, check out the "SITE BANNED FROM ADSENSE" threads, happens all the time.
[edited by: incrediBILL at 10:03 pm (utc) on Aug. 6, 2007]
As for the rest -- health insurance -- that's what my wife is for. She works, while I stay home doing Adsense full time. We get our family's health insurance through her. But I earn in 2 months what she earns in a year as a middle level manager.
Ah, that's true I suppose.
Does that happen to people who don't actually break the rules though?
...band together to form a co-op...
IncrediBILL (or anyone else) do you know anyone who has doe this?
Be interesting to get a few more details/ideas/hints.
It isn't going to help with the 401(k) issue, but at least it will get you the health insurance. I'm trying to find a group that offers a decent dental plan. Most of the non-employer plans you end up paying almost as much as if you don't have any coverage.
Does that happen to people who don't actually break the rules though?
Here's one:
[webmasterworld.com...]
I have total insurance and 401K here in maryland. Although the state legislature recently got bought off by the insurance companies and recinded the law the requiring insurers to insure sole proprietors. I still have group insurance as a sole proprietor only because the insurance company is 'being nice'.
F the Democratic-controlled state legislature of Maryland! You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Unite sole proprietors, unite!
Just remember, making $100K/year ($50/hour) is only an average of $11.42/hour for a website running 24x7! ;)
So a $1,000K/year would be $114.20/hour? Sweet!
I think I need to buy some bennies. Too busy working 3, 4 hour blocks per day 7 days a week.(I do take the ocassional day off) That's 84 hrs. What does that work out to be?
Maybe I should fill that app out for Home Depot, they got bennies!
[edited by: Khensu at 4:47 am (utc) on Aug. 7, 2007]
But now i have a wife and a daughter to support, and the *best* thing about a stable job is that it's reliable income. Website affiliate revenue on the other hand can't really be counted on. By that I mean in the long, long run
Really?
I've been earning steadily off the web for 10 years and chucked contracting and went 100% full time into just being a "publisher" for the last 5.
How is it any less reliable than the job in a big 'secure' company where you show up and get called into a company meeting and they announce "Earnings are down 40% and 1/3 of the work force will be let go" and you're in that third?
Many people are self-employed, and doing it on the web is just another form of self-employment, so it's neither more or less stable than any other job IMO unless you aren't a good self-employer in the first place.
Maybe I'm less inclined to be a 'company man' than most because my parents had their own business.
Guess it boils down to how secure you are in control of your own destiny vs. letting others call the shots and being just a small cog in a big corporate wheel.
health insurance -- that's what my wife is for. She works, while I stay home doing Adsense full time. We get our family's health insurance through her.
That WAS my situation as well for the insurance except she makes a big income with lots of stock options, and recently decided to bail out and cash in the stock options.
That left me holding the bag after her COBRA runs out in 36 months, we're in CA so you get an automatic 18 month extension of the basic 18-month COBRA. However, it's not cheap which is why I'm exploring options.
[edited by: incrediBILL at 7:47 pm (utc) on Aug. 7, 2007]
* Federal minimum wage is: $5.85 or $46.80 for an 8 hour day ($11.7K/year)* Home Depot worker $7-$20 or $56-$160 for an 8 hour day. ($14K-$40K/year)
* Web designer annual salary (from Salary.com) $54K - $73K/year
Or hourly ranging from $27/hr ($216/day) to $36.5/hr ($292/day)
You can not compare employee wage with this.
A self employed has much more possibilities.
For exampel my car.
345 every month for leasing
125 car insurance per month (complete coverage of all)
An employeed has to pay all with his wage.
An self employed says 80% company usage.
But there are also differences between the average self employed and an AdSense publisher.
An AdSense publisher drives with his family on holidays, makes much photos, creates 60 pages from his holiday destination and tells most is company expenses.
Put your wife on the payroll thus becoming a real small business and you'll likely be able to get regular group insurance just like every other small business.
All these numbers applicable for US, UK or other developed countries
But in my country
* Nothing like minumum wages
* Monthly Salary of Web Designer (3 Years Experience) - $200 to $400 (Thats what I pay, which is 10-20% more than market price
* Monthly Salary of DBA in Microsoft( 7 years Experince) - $ 3125 - That almost max for any kind of IT job
For developing countries, there is just no match with adsense if you are doing 3K/month plus if you provide some SEO services as freelancer.
Even if you earn for 5 years, its worth 10 year of what you get from a job.
The benefits side of the equation is interesting to me, as well as the tax implications (double FICA..ouch), since I want to go full time and leave my day job. I'm real interested to read what other people do for insurance, retirement plans, etc. The reliance on an employer to get decent access to these things (in the US) is something I hope lawmakers will address soon. It's a system that might've made more sense back when everyone was working on assembly lines, but in today's age of greater entrepreneurship it's an obstacle. I'm not partisan on who does it or how it is done, just throw us a bone here!
Here in Europe most people get free healthcare even if they're homeless and sleeping under a bridge
True, but on the other hand pay, at least at the lower end, is higher - minimum wage here in Ireland is €8.65 which is almost $12 per hour or getting on for $25,000 per year based on a 40 hour working week. And AdSense pays in dollars, which converts poorly at the moment. And everything, and I mean everything, is MUCH more expensive than in the US.
So in fact to earn as much as you would working a 40 hour week on minimum wage you'd need to be earning over $2000 per month from your site. And you're not going to be living it up at minimum wage level.
...so it's neither more or less stable than any other job IMO unless you aren't a good self-employer in the first place.
Bill, instead of "good" self-employer maybe you should have said "atypical" self-employer. Most entrepreneurs don't make it. There's nothing wrong with that. I never really went out of business. I've been doing web design (not page design, but mostly Perl and PHP) on the side for years. i simply found that working a regular job earns me more money for less effort.
How is it any less reliable than the job in a big 'secure' company where you show up and get called into a company meeting and they announce "Earnings are down 40% and 1/3 of the work force will be let go" and you're in that third?
If an office with a staff of 8 is "big" then I'm missing something :) One-third? Wow, that's three of us. If that happens I imagine the whole company would go under.
......
youfoundjake, I figured out I will need $350K in order to have enough to pay for my daughter's college tuition 18 years from now. That will require around $900 a month for 18 years, at a 6% return. Scary thought, isn't it?
......
jbayabas, my health care is FREE too! I pick out the plan, and my employer reimburses me for the premium. Little to no co-pays, as well. It's a pretty decent health plan, and it doesn't cost me a dime.
