Forum Moderators: martinibuster
How long does it usually take to turn around?
Thanks
When the stuff hit the fan in mid July I decided not to optimize for CTR. I took EFV's advice (short term gains {2 year's worth}) and moved my single ad block
from visual hot spot smack dab after the first paragraph on the page to a <div> that allowed the text to flow around the ad on the left side. I also increased the width of the text to show more text flowing around the ad rather than less.
Also added more navigation (breadcrumbs) and more of the fluff pages (privacy,etc).
My CTR immediately dropped by about 30%.
I figured it would take a while for the stats to build up so that G would see a difference. So, I stuck to it through jul,aug,sep,oct. I'd think that would be enough time.
Also during this period visitors dropped by about 40% due to reduced adwords performance. So there was a significant drop in the pounding of advertiser's ads.
There was also an increase in the proportion of Google search traffic.
Is 3.5 months of this long enough? I would think so.
After seeing all stats (CTR,CPM,EPC,traffic) continue to decline I gave up during the last week of October and put everything back.
Now, of course, my CTR is up significantly and so is total revenue (a little).
I'm beginning to switch over to YPN more and more now. That may also help my Google stats since I'm placing the Y on some main entry pages which lowers the clicks on adsense advertisers - saving them for the interior pages. That's my latest theory and may be a 'long term' solution.
the search comparison is not valid as the models are conflicting
Sure, it's valid. The issue isn't whether search is free or AdSense earns money for Google and publishers; it's whether telling publishers "exactly what metrics to publish for" would result in abuse of the system and a reduction in value to advertisers.
Publishers need to abandon the "It's all about me" mindset and look at the bigger picture. How would advertisers benefit from Google's helping publishers to "publish for the metrics"? And do you honestly believe that advertisers would want Google sharing their proprietary ROI data with publishers, as was suggested in an earlier post?
efv, you have already been told multiple times that it's not about just the publishers:
"G makes money from adsense and providing publishers with more information to maximize publisher's returns also makes G more money"
>>>Doing so would be the equivalent of having Google Search tell Webmasters, "here's how many keywords to use in your text" or "here's how we define 'unnatural linking patterns,'<<<
wrong, "unnatural linking patterns" is proprietary info that google never shares with anyone outside of the company... all we are asking for is to give publishers some of the same info that they already give advertisers.
therefore, your misguided attempts to compare search data to advertiser data is not valid, and not even logical, for that matter.
>>>would result in abuse of the system and a reduction in value to advertisers.<<<
as usual, you haven't provided the slightest bit of evidence that such a thing could or would happen... and since you have never used adwords before, efv, you aren't speaking from a base of experience.
>> believe that advertisers would want Google sharing their proprietary ROI data with publishers
not a chance, that would be quite the breach
do I think G can do more with regards to providing data to publishers, absolutely but they walk a fine line. They will continue to add value to their product which means giving more for publishers and more for the advertisers as well.
I think they should concentrate more on the advertiser side really and that they provide a fair bit for publishers at the moment.
I think analysis on both sides falls somewhat short
And do you honestly believe that advertisers would want Google sharing their proprietary ROI data with publishers, as was suggested in an earlier post?
Canny publishers know the ROI. Advertisers give this information to places like Commission Junction which then pass it on to publishers - statistics like historical click data on ads. Advertisers already give Google ROI data based on user behaviour. I'm still waiting for Google to integrate Adsense with Analytics as they have done with Adwords.
I'm merely suggesting that one possible reason publishers are earning less is because the pie is more thinly spread than it used to be, and that this is never mentioned in response to these threads.
I agree with this, actually. There has been an explosion of AdSense sites, as people become aware of the program and how (presumably) easy it is to make money with it. (Note use of parentheses in previous sentence.) In general, with ad exposure up, but purchases via those ads held constant, advertisers are making less money per AdSense site. (Yes, I realize it is a generalization and specific sectors might actually perform better with additional exposure.)
That's what I take issue with. It's a whole different kettle of fish from providing "heat maps," section targeting to improve ad relevance, etc. Still, such suggestions aren't worth debating at length, because there's no reason to believe that Google would ever tell publishers "exactly what metrics to publish for" or what ROI an advertiser is getting for its ads.
Even if G were to somehow agree to provide ROI to publishers, all advertisers do not share ROI with G (for very good business reasons).
That said, Google wants to see everyone make money (in a general sense), but they must be sensitive to advertisers' concerns since advertisers provide the fuel (money) that drives the train.
since advertisers provide the fuel (money) that drives the train.
Advertisers stoke the Adsense Engine,
Publishers ride in the train,
Google runs the buffet car,
Providing us all with food.
As the train went down the line,
A thief tried to steal the coal,
The Google Train Manager spotted him,
And asked him to leave.
Before the thief left the Google train,
They took the coal back,
To give back to the Advertisers,
To be put back in the Adsense Train.
Choo-choo went the Adsense train.
...this is very interesting. I have a community site I have been trying to seed. So, I advertise in AdWords for the same keyphrases I provide ads for on my site ... its a was to bring down the cost of seeding the community (or so I thought).
My calculations last month was that I was earning about 25% as much from AdSense as I was spending on AdWords. Thus month (after thoroughly optimizing my AdWords spend incednetly) .. I'm now making about 15% of what I'm spending.
..this is getting rediculous! I'm getting practically none of the earnings from these stupid ads!
I'm beginning to wonder why anyone bothers with AdSense. 15% is just an insult!
Why do you keep talking about 15%. It has nothing to do with the issue of what G is paying adsense publishers.
When doing arbritage you immediately start of at least 30% behind since adwords takes 100% of the money and adsense only pays as high as 70% for us regular publishers.
Arbitrage is on its way out... But you'll find you can do better with fewer adsense ads on your website. (although going below 1 can really hurt:) And, continue to optimize your adwords campaigns - there is a lot to learn there.
It also sounds like you may be getting a lot of charity ads - worth nothing and don't count in the stats.
I used the preview tool on over 50 of my site's pages. Easily 40% of the major advertisers were MFA's (100% of the .info domains were MFA's). Maybe 20% of the my advertisers were web retailers simply offering their generic versions of products or else offering brandnames for less (these are what I had always considered the bread and butter advertisers of Adsense and the one's whose ads I would like to run). The last 40% of the advertisers were astounding localized in nature, as in "Need a plummer in Podunkville? - Call us." (when Podunkville isn't even mentioned on the website page).
To me this is simply a sign that thanks to the way Adsense is running their program into the ground (MFA's, parked domains, no enforcement of TOS) that the premium advertisers are staying away from the content side of Adsense in droves.
I'm merely suggesting that one possible reason publishers are earning less is because the pie is more thinly spread than it used to be, and that this is never mentioned in response to these threads.
And while each piece of pie is getting narrower, the pie isn't as thick as it used to be either because of the change in the types of the advertisers.
that the premium advertisers are staying away from the content side of Adsense in droves.
i don't see that. on my sites at least, targeting and advertiser type/base is ok.
[edited by: moTi at 6:09 pm (utc) on Nov. 5, 2006]
When I use Google search, out of the 11 paid ads showing with the SERP's, only one is participating on the content side.
When I use Yahoo search, out of the 12 paid ads showing with the SERP's, only one is participating on the content side of Adsense.
.....for a particular keyword phrase that is one of the better money making set of keywords in my field.
[edited by: Broadway at 7:47 pm (utc) on Nov. 5, 2006]
By deleting my last post you effectively subscribed me to the thread again. All I'm trying to do is stop receiving the email notifications and need to post with the box unchecked to do that, so mind leaving this one?
Thanks much.
