Forum Moderators: martinibuster
Do we assume that these ads are "all" in the sub 5-10 cents EPC category?
Are there any, say, 30+ cents MFAs?
For those whose sites are hit by MFAs, do you feel there are actually enough "normal" advertisers at MFA price level+ for your widget sector?
I assume that MFA advertisers actually pay their AdWords bills therefore what do you believe they derive from these ads that your "regular" advertisers do not?
Occasionally I use AdWords to drive awareness of a new widget site that also happens to display AdSense but the AdSense earnings are never better than 25-30% of the cost...a non-sustainable advertising financial model...however I am in my trade for the long haul, not short term "advertising profits", and I can actually see whether or not those ads generate bricks and mortar enquiries and orders.
Are your MFAs simply showing more ads or afilliate sites from which they hope to make money?
I get some MFA's on my main site, but not many, and they pay over $1 quite often.
I tend to use the filter for competitors more than MFA's although if I see one that is a blatant rip off, I add them too :-)
I guess that most of the MFAs pay less than 10 cents, typically targeting niche keywords. After I blocked the most persistent MFAs, my EPC went up - up to 50%! Even better, now that they are (mostly) gone from my high-traffic pages, income has stabilized dramatically. If I look at my 31 days moving average graph for EPC, it's almost like drawn with a ruler now - a straight line pointing slightly up.
Now if only I could block domains in bulk, based on advertisers instead of URLs, that would be a real improvement. Argh - Christmas is still too far away...
Do we assume that these ads are "all" in the sub 5-10 cents EPC category?
Absolutely not. Many MFA's pay anywhere between $0.50 and $1.50/click, which isn't bad. But the problem is not solely based on low EPC. Most of us have businesses that we deem "respectable" and would rather not direct a valuable user to a useless advertiser.
Are there any, say, 30+ cents MFAs?
Yep. I've seen some payout $1.00+ (US).
For those whose sites are hit by MFAs, do you feel there are actually enough "normal" advertisers at MFA price level+ for your widget sector?
Most definitely. While I do believe many advertisers are jumping ship, and opting for the Search network only - I don't think price level is the true problem.
I assume that MFA advertisers actually pay their AdWords bills therefore what do you believe they derive from these ads that your "regular" advertisers do not?
Their goal seems to be finding a process that will generate thousands of clicks from a single ad. Essentially, it's like creating an Adwords ad that leads a visitor to 12 Adsense ads (4 each in three 300x250 blocks). Most MFA's realize that average web users have short attention spans. Therefore, when they leave your site and hit an MFA landing page, many users will notice a new ad that grabs their attention. Many will click the MFA's links when their attention shifts to this new ad, while others will click in an effort to leave the page. Either way, the MFA makes a few dollars.
Occasionally I use AdWords to drive awareness of a new widget site that also happens to display AdSense but the AdSense earnings are never better than 25-30% of the cost...a non-sustainable advertising financial model...
Exactly. This has long been an observation of Adwords advertisers who try to measure the ROI over on the Adsense side. We just can't figure out how the MFA's are staying in the game if their earnings are not generating a good profit.
Are your MFAs simply showing more ads or afilliate sites from which they hope to make money?
Yes, and this is my number one problem with MFA's. Many folks just don't like the fact that a site owner throws three 300x250 ad blocks on a page, leaving their user no other place to click.
I'm more concerned with the trashy look of MFA's and the fact that my users are being directed there through my site. If a valued user/customer thinks that I'm associated with a trashy site, I may lose my customer.
Any business owner knows that satisfied customers are WAY important.
And more the profits the MFA website brings, more they are willing to pay for a click. However, you can find MFA in almost any industry. For MFAs, creating Content isnt a problem. :)
Ricky
Just wondering how to tell on MFA site from a legitimate site.
However, I have seen a few with landing pages consisting of two links. One saying: "Find More Widgets 1 Here", "Find More Widgets 2 Here" and when you click the link, three Adsense blocks are in your face.
You will recognize a MFA the second you see it. Some indicators are:
* Fully blended Adsense
* Large rectangle in the middle right next to the text
* Two or more Adsense blocks and/or
* Overture and/or other ad programs present
* Hitfarm style landing page, i.e. just "sponsored links" with unified layout
* No or very little identifyable content
* No or very little useful content
* No or very little unique content
* Ad copy promises something that the landing page can't keep
* Landing page does not sell a product or service directly (they mostly present affiliate links or ads)
* Navigating on landing page removes Back button
* Domain name is part of a domain name family of the same advertiser, e.g. redwidgets.com, bluewidgets.com, greenwidgets.com
* Domain registration is private, i.e. the owner wants to hide his true identity
A good guideline is to do a sanity check: If YOU were one of your visitors, and you would see the ad copy and be attracted by the ad - would you be disappointed when you saw the landing page? Would you think that the ad did not fulfil the promise? Would you find the content on the landing page useful? Would you even bother to use the landing page? Or would you be puzzled as to what the landing page is all about?
As I said, you'll quickly get a feeling for which landing pages are legit and which are MFA.
Ricky
Occasionally I use AdWords to drive awareness of a new widget site that also happens to display AdSense but the AdSense earnings are never better than 25-30% of the cost...a non-sustainable advertising financial model
Your site differs from an MFA... you most likely offer something of value to your visitor and that is why the user is not leaving through an ad. An MFA site, on the other hand, is built around the ads with content that offers little and a design that encourages leaving through an ad. The MFA will logically have a higher CTR than you and therefore are more likely to make a profit.
When I block the MFA's in the filter, should I used the "www" prefix or leave it off? I see some advertiser's using both versions
According to Adsense's competitive filter page, entering "example.com" (without the "www") blocks all ads across all subdomains for that URL.
If it's not the the cost and not the industry, than what is it that causes some sites to have problems with this and others that do not?
An MFA site, on the other hand, is built around the ads with content that offers little and a design that encourages leaving through an ad. The MFA will logically have a higher CTR than you and therefore are more likely to make a profit.
Like spacylacie I'm a bit perplexed by all of this.
Even if I had a 100% CTR on a site displaying AdSense, I would still not earn enough to be able to justify my expenditure since I get, basically, 75% of Google's earnings.
If I have to pay USD 0.40 to earn USD 0.30 then it's obviously not a very good deal and an AdWorder usually has to pay at least USD 0.60 to USD 1.20 to get in my leaderboard. I know this since I know the advertisers therefore this is not guess work.
I, too, assumed that the MFA's were paying low value clicks but plainly not according to some posters, however how do the MFA's attract the higher value ads to their sites other than by operating 24 hours with low value clicks and the hope that they actually have some of the higher value ads on their page(s)?
If it's not the the cost and not the industry, than what is it that causes some sites to have problems with this and others that do not?
Yep, help us to understand this.
Is it Google's "determination value" (whatever that may be) of one's site as to whether it is authority or not?
Could it be by Google SERPs ranking position?
What other factors could make one site more susceptible to MFA's than another?
Just how the hell are these people making money?
Or is it all a con job by G to empty all their purses?
Most likely though... the mystical "authority site" theory comes to mind. Are we back to square 1 yet?
...yet I'm not seeing these MFA advertisers on my sites.
How many pages do you have and how many times each day do you visit each of those pages to see which ads are showing?
How many of the ads do you visit (direct, not by clicking) to see if the landing page is an MFA? For some of these ads, the text is not an obvious indicator. For some it is.
And how many different geographic areas do you travel to each day to view your site?
My point is unless you have an incredibly small site and spend a lot of time reviewing ads, you really don't know what's appearing on your pages - especially in different geographic locations.
FarmBoy
