Forum Moderators: martinibuster
BUT how many adwords clients have conversion tracking on their account? We of course cannot know for sure - but has anyone a reasoned estimate? I would guess not that high a percentage.
This begs the question - how does smartpricing work for adsense adverts shown for advertisers not implementing conversion tracking? Is there no smartpricing perhaps for these advertts?
Could we as adsense guys try and manipulate the ads shown that we have worked out are implementing smartpricing. Save ourselves this battle with voodoo. Maybe there are some content sectors where less advertisors are implementing conversion tracking.
Smartpricing seems strange to me as:
) google is payed per click (regardless of conversion)
) publisher payment is heavily tied to conversion
So, with an advert that does not convert very well - the advertiser is still paying the same but the publisher gets less. Which means that google gets more. Why does google not pass this publisher discount onto the advertiser?
Because of course then the advertiser could manipulate - "I have no conversions. Give me a discount". But google should set its mind to working this out. If the publisher is paid less this discount should be passed onto the advertiser.
Forgive me if I have completely misunderstood this gig. Just some of my thoughts, at my current level of understanding.
Smartpricing seems strange to me as:) google is payed per click (regardless of conversion)
) publisher payment is heavily tied to conversion
Google claims that it is the advertiser's payment that is discounted, and that Google then passes through a percentage of whatever that is to the publisher. That's what they say. Some here say they think Google keeps more when the discount is higher.
Google also says that they base the discount on conversion, but as you say many advertisers do not track conversion. My feeling is that they then fall back on factors associated with conversion, such as click-through rate, perhaps how tightly the ad's keywords are matched to the keywords on the page, and some advertiser factors they mentioned recently in the AdSense blog (you should go read that). I don't think that smart pricing doesn't happen just because they don't have conversion data.
how does smartpricing work for adsense adverts shown for advertisers not implementing conversion tracking?
the advertiser is still paying the same but the publisher gets less. Which means that google gets more. Why does google not pass this publisher discount onto the advertiser?
Because of course then the advertiser could manipulate
I imagine such things as time on site and other factors might come into play with smart pricing.
I don't really know what kind of information Google has on advertisers.. so I don't know...
Advertiser X is encouraged by common sense to put the success page out of reach of the clicker. This should logically contribute to the common advertiser goal of increasing the availability of cheaper venues to advertise on.
If you're relying on that statement and the paragraph that follows it, well, they've actually left themselves some wiggle room.
Have you seen something else?
They use conversions when they can, but when conversions aren't available, they have to use other factors...
"Advertiser X is encouraged by common sense to put the success page out of reach of the clicker."
I didn't read anything about this in the adwords conversion documentation - even under the "What are the benefits of setting up conversion" (or words to that effect). So, I would guess google must break this good news once you set it up and get it going.
I would guess google must break this good news once you set it up and get it going.
As an adwords advertiser I do not recall ever getting that "good news".
In fact, I don't have any statement telling me how much my total bill is being discounted thanks to Smartpricing.
In fact, there is almost nothing we know about the "refund" that is apparently the cause of SP existing. We don't know if it's been applied to our account, when, how much or on what campaigns.
The bottom line is this: It's like religion. You've just got to believe.
The bottom line is this: It's like religion. You've just got to believe.
You need to believe only that Google is honoring its promises to advertisers. And Google really does deserve credit for introducing smart pricing--after all, when was the last time a TV network gave discounts for bathroom visits during Super Bowl commercials? :-)
i believe sp is simply a way to make publishers earn less, its a good thing ypn is coming up strong, no more monopoly for adsense, google will eventually have to do something about the sp
It's more likely that YPN will need to introduce its own version of smart pricing or a workable alternative if it wants to attract and keep advertisers. For example, YPN (or Google, for that matter) could allow advertisers to:
- Place CPC bids for specific sites, as they can do with AdSense site-targeted CPM ads;
- Include or exclude whole types of content (forums, directory pages, pages with a high advertising-to-content ratio, etc.);
- Automatically exclude publishers (not just sites) that don't meet the advertiser's own conversion goals, as determined by conversion tracking;
It's just not realistic to expect that advertisers will pay full retail for clicks from anybody and everybody--especially with so many cynical, greedy Web entrepreneurs trying to exploit the system.
Side note: For advertisers who don't trust Google to supply its promised "smart pricing" discounts, or for publisher-advertisers who believe that all clicks convert equally well, I'd like to suggest that Google introduce a "Full-Price Option" (FPO) for advertisers. This would eliminate uncertainty for the advertisers, and it would allow those publisher-advertisers to demonstrate the power of their convictions. :-)
..then again, that suggests google didnt realise what was going to happen: perhaps they did and have been quite happy to receive the revenue generated by scraper sites.
"Clickthrough rate doesn't affect advertiser return on investment (ROI)."
Yahoo wont need smartpricing if they prevent low quality sites from displaying the ads. Smart pricing only exists because google didnt vet every site, if I was being uncharitable I might even say google is directly to blame for all the scraping tools and auto generated sites cluttering the serps.
And how much of the advertisers are experienced? Sites are being smart priced based on the assumption that they're unlikely to convert. What a piece of crap model.
Yahoo wont need smartpricing if they prevent low quality sites from displaying the ads.
Quality is only part of the equation. Travel ads on a high-quality "armchair travel" site won't convert as well as travel ads on a travel-planning site, for example. Why? Because armchair travelers travel mostly in their imaginations, while people who visit a travel-planning site are researching ways to spend their money.
When smart pricing was introduced, Google used another example: a page of photo tips vs. a camera review. (The reader of a photo-tips page might see an ad for a Widgetco WC-1 camera and click it to learn more about the camera, while the reader of a Widgetco WC-1 camera review is more likely to be clicking on the ad because he's been presold on the camera and is ready to take the next step.)
Believe a huge public company that they are passing the discount to advertisers. Without people believing them, where would all those poor old Fortune 500 companies be? :)
The bottom line is this: It's like religion. You've just got to believe.You need to believe only that Google is honoring its promises to advertisers.
I must be missing something here. What connection does Google honouring promises to advertisers have to Google (or the SP algo) not screwing me over?
Bear in mind that this is the company that lost the # 1 SERPs for Adsense to a hijacker, that can't resolve canonical URLs, that are unable to do anything serious about supplementals.... They can have the greatest intentions in the world but if their smartpricing model is rubbish, it's rubbish. It boils down to "Is Google's guesswork any good?" and "Are they applying that guesswork correctly?" If you don't have faith and just believe you've also got questions like "Does the advertiser really get any of that money back?" and "Is it a fair redistribution?"
