Forum Moderators: martinibuster
At this time Google needs publishers. Publishers don't need google. Thanks to YPN, Chitika and the new Adcenter from Microsoft.
Greedy Google is panicking. Check out their Referral program. looooooool.
Once again, we have a thread where the OP questions the inherent flaws in the MEANS (in this case once again, the "Smart Pricing" algo) that Google uses to pursue its ENDS.
Did you even read the original post in this thread? The one that began, "The only people who are stuck with Adsense are the foriegners, the clueless, and the big dogs who profit from the unfair 'smart-pricing' fraud"? Apparently not.
Other posters then join in the debate, a debate again essentially about MEANS, and the unfairness and flaws in the MEANS.
But the other posters don't know the "means." Google's smart-pricing alogrithm is secret. So complaints about "unfairness" and "flaws" are inherently subjective (and usually self-centered). They come down to "I'm not making enough money" or "Google must be cheating because my EPC dropped."
Once again, you chime in again, predictably, with your ubiquitous Google-can-do-no-wrong assertions...
That's right--when you can't refute the message, attack the messenger. Still, this thread isn't about me or you; it's about whether smart pricing is a "fraud," whether it's "unfair," and whether Google is "panicking" because only "foriegners (sic), the clueless, and the big dogs" are profiting from it. And by the way, I'd love for someone to explain why "foriegners" and "the clueless" are able to profit from smart pricing while those who aren't foreign or clueless suffer. What do those "foriegners" and "clueless" publishers know that clued-in U.S. publishers don't?
But the other posters don't know the "means." Google's smart-pricing alogrithm is secret. So complaints about "unfairness" and "flaws" are inherently subjective (and usually self-centered). They come down to "I'm not making enough money" or "Google must be cheating because my EPC dropped."
There simply isn't a problem with this - I don't see why you think there is. Posters are being honest, and IMHO that's a good thing. Far better than saying how wonderful Google is, and that they can't do any wrong. Google reads this forum, and hopefully uses comments here (good and bad) to see what the general views are and hopefully make improvements to adsense. Therefore negative feedback is a good thing that may bring about some positives some way down the track.
You are forgetting that as Google just don't answer emails, and when they do they don't understand the question and give irrelevant boiler-plate replies. Therefore this forum is the only way we have of letting Google know of our concerns. People *will* use the forum to that end.
In my case, I personally think smart pricing is unfair in that it's simply slashed the EPC I've had over the last couple of months because I've got a better position thanks to Jagger. It's happened to me, therefore it's happening to a lot of others. I don't post to complain about what I'm not earning thanks to the awful algo, but to share with others what is happening and why I *think* it's happening. It helps someone, somewhere. I appreciate other's sharing good and bad experiences, therefore I do the same.
Being #1 on the keywords for my niche makes my site prime real estate for ads. I'm not suggesting that smart pricing should increase my EPC because of this, but I am saying that cutting my EPC by 28% as a pure profit rake off for them is a tad obvious. We all expect fluctuations (sometimes big ones) - that's adsense life, but their profiteering is blatant. Coupled with my experience as an a advertiser, is shows that smart pricing is all about maximising google's profit, and has sod all to do with giving advertisers a discount.
You are right, we will never know the truth, but sometimes patterns are so clear there really is little doubt.
But the other posters don't know the "means." Google's smart-pricing alogrithm is secret. So complaints about "unfairness" and "flaws" are inherently subjective (and usually self-centered). They come down to "I'm not making enough money" or "Google must be cheating because my EPC dropped."
Just had a look at my states again. Them $3-$5 per/c pages suddenly making only $0.01-$0.04 for three days strait with the same ads on, same traffic and same sources of traffic.....you must be kidding EFV.....smart pricing is nothing but a not too smart webmaster shafting tool, IMO.
I hear what you're saying David UK but the at the end of the day we all entered into this program knowing full well that Google and Google alone decides how much cut to give you and at the end of the day that is the bottom line. For publishers who don't like Google's "unfair" policy... the door is wide open ;).
There are so many better paying alternatives out there...you bet it is. I have no doubt G are already seeing a steady drift in the number of daily impressions network wide. How do i know?....their new affiliate program speaks a thousand words.
Shame really.....adsense used to be an excellent program untill They started cutting down on the incentives with all them wired not too smart algo tricks.
Just had a look at my states again. Them $3-$5 per/c pages suddenly making only $0.01-$0.04 for three days strait with the same ads on, same traffic and same sources of traffic.....you must be kidding EFV.....smart pricing is nothing but a not too smart webmaster shafting tool, IMO.
If it were nothing but a "webmaster shafting tool," why wouldn't it affect publishers across the board?
Them $3-$5 per/c pages suddenly making only $0.01-$0.04 for three days strait
seems like made for adsense pages that finally got detected by the smart pricing algo :@)
There are so many better paying alternatives out there...you bet it is. I have no doubt G are already seeing a steady drift in the number of daily impressions network wide. How do i know?....their new affiliate program speaks a thousand words.
[webmasterworld.com...]
As I said before, all decent programes will have their version of smart pricing, even Y!
Honestly, it really doesn't matter how much data you have about websites and searches and clicks, if you don't know how well each particular site converts, you simply can't make a call on how well it probably converts. Even if you have the conversion rates from 100 similar sites, there are just too many variables to try and guess at the conversion rate of another site.
I personally don't think Google is being fraudulent, I just think it was an attempt to get advertisers to put ads into the content network. That worked very well as a marketing tactic, but that's about it.
Just throwing in that I agree with those who are saying that there is no way for Google to know the conversion rates of advertisers (at least of the many who don't track conversions), and therefore to attempt to modify the earnings per click based on the expectation of conversion is ludicrous.
Wrong!, Google has the easiest way to know if a site converts even if there is no tracking in place, GG just relays in the Advertiser's fact that if the 'site' is choosen for CPM it is because its quality and good ROI. Let's face it, seriuos advertisers analize their AW stats, sources, etc. They identify the good and bad sites, they then recomend them thru CPM, if a site gets CPMs it is likely GG will think it should be paid more. That is for me just one of the many ways of knowing which sites do better.
This morning I noticed one page getting too many clicks.
I immediately removed adsense and notified G about it.
Smart pricing lowered the value or discounted the clicks so that the net result was about 5cents vs normal EPC of 50cents.
SP in this case worked well to protect the advertiser, which I am one too.
seems like made for adsense pages that finally got detected by the smart pricing algo :@)
Seems like a silly (wrong) assumption made by someone who hasn’t been affected by smart pricing just yet. You'll be talking differently when it bites you...i have no doubt.
My sites are not made for adsense they are online since 1999 and cater for various specialised trade industries.
why wouldn't it affect publishers across the board?
EFV, you've been saying the exact same when webmasters were complaining about their content sites disappearing from the serps for no apparent reason (bourbon etc.). Then a few more updates later and look at the number of posts on the G update threads, they are breaking new records.
The SP problem is real and many webmasters are affected just like the google jagger update sage is real.
The thing i find most intresting with smart pricing is the fact that the same pages (with same ads, traffic etc.) revert back and forth like a yo yo. You can have 3-4 days of high paying clicks and then suddenly 1-2 days of $0.01-0.04 clicks and then back to $1-$3 and round and round it goes. It just doesn’t make sense. How come the same pages with same advertisers on can fluctuate by such margins?. I just can’t see all advertisers (at once) suddenly deciding to reduce their payout by so much and then ramp it up back again by so much all at once. There is something very fishy about the whole thing.
Seems like a silly (wrong) assumption made by someone who hasn’t been affected by smart pricing just yet. You'll be talking differently when it bites you...i have no doubt.
Seems like a silly wrong assumption on your part.
I already got hit by SP January 2005, but instead of crying about it I had a re-look at my site from an advertisers POV, turned it into a site that converts, and my revenue is back and almost exceeding what it was in January.
I hear what you're saying David UK but the at the end of the day we all entered into this program knowing full well that Google and Google alone decides how much cut to give you and at the end of the day that is the bottom line. For publishers who don't like Google's "unfair" policy... the door is wide open .
Yes - that's always an option! However, I'm likely to be staying with Google in the short term. I'd just like them to fix the stupid faults in the system. I think competition has to be a good thing, and it seems to be starting to bite.
Having said that, I've just finished writing a book on my site's topic. I'm going to be advertising that on my site (obviously). If that takes off, then it's possible that adsense will lose some prime ad real estate. If that happens I'll be sure to send them an email telling them, and blaming their stupid smart pricing policy :)
Again I fail to see how people are making the decision that their drop in revenue is due to "smart pricing"? Please enlighten me as to how you make this distinction....versus the other factors in a CPC business model.
<just feel left out...since not bright enough to understand how you accomplish this> <bill pass the beer...need to get more creative here:)>
EFV, you've been saying the exact same when webmasters were complaining about their content sites disappearing from the serps for no apparent reason (bourbon etc.).
No, but I have said the same thing when publishers have accused Google of "cutting the payout percentage" just because their own earnings have declined.
Then a few more updates later and look at the number of posts on the G update threads, they are breaking new records.
This isn't the Google Search News forum, and this certainly isn't a Google Update thread, so please let's not get sidetracked by discussions of Bourbon, Jagger, etc.
FYI, teamwork means more production, increased efficiency, higher quality, etc. thus less low quality sites.
Not necessarily. It can simply mean a greater volume of sites cranked out by underpaid employees, penny-a-word freelancers, or unpaid wannabe authors who know little if anything about their topics.
