October 2023 Google Search Observations

[Cyril TechWebsites]

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System: The following 3 messages were cut out of thread at: https://www.webmasterworld.com/google/5093320.htm [webmasterworld.com] by not2easy - 11:10 am on Oct 1, 2023 (atl -4)

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Seeing further drastical drop on Saturday. I stopped producing new content and updating the old content. There is no sense anymore for me, feeling awful to say that, but my website was fully destroyed with the "helpful" update.

[mosxu]

Huge increase in zombie traffic yesterday really need to be on top of it as it spends all campaign budgets!

[Micha]

The Google quarterly figures seem to have been reached, there is a medium “rollback” in my area.

I'm observing similar things in my thematic area, however, it's more than a recovery for me. In some cases, I see an improvement of almost 80 percent and Google News traffic has almost tripled since the rather lousy weekend. Also, it seems that the big news sites are losing.

[Razorllama]

Huge increase in zombie traffic yesterday

I'm seeing the same here, conversions over the past 3 days have been 30% of what they usually are. Even after the traffic drop, I compared current traffic levels with similar traffic levels and the traffic quality is just abysmal.

[RedBar]

Bearing in mind the majority of my business is in Eurasia, Indonesia & Middle East, I usually have good overnight traffic however this morning after 10 hours of my Googleday I'm at 12% and those have been solely single page views.

More of a mess being churned out?

[Maximiliam]

Been a helpful and totally free site for over 20 years with answering peoples car repair questions (writing staff have been actual professional car mechanics). We let people read the solutions to others peoples problems in a moderated forum style environment. We even have large archive with articles (step by step mostly) and video guides on YT.

We got hit massively by this update. We are down at least 50% and it just gets worse. Even though we are the definition of being helpful and have a legacy site. I guess we have not been helpful all this time and I guess our several hundred thousand users have disliked us all this time after many of them praising the good work we have provided for them.

We have done nothing wrong to our knowledge. At least not per earlier guidlines from both the community and Google.

Google does not seem to understand our subject at all (car repair). There is not a single solution to a problem. There might be several and it might take some going back and forth coming to a conclusion. Sorry that we helped so many people. But clearly Google thinks we did not.

[christianz]

@Maximiliam

Very similar situation, although my drop/slide hasn't (YET) been as dramatic.

Being car repair site I think your queries are mostly long tail and very specific. This is where Google is most broken. For long tail queries they routinely show hacked sites on random subdomains with generated content.

They also dumb down your queries. If you search for replacing "camshaft sensor", they will give you results for replacing "crankshaft sensor" and even boldface the non-existent, incorrect keyword "crankshaft" which you didn't enter.

[Fluff_Nutz]

Funny. Is it all down to consistency? During the update my team were posting articles every day. Granted the traffic dropped a good 45-50% still but once it ''ended'' I got the traffic back. However, as I cannot afford to play Google's games right now I took one of my writers to another platform. Where consistent growth and traffic can be found. Meaning the site is now on hold and no new articles have been posted for several days now. Looking at my traffic and it is beginning to drop. As expect with negligence.

I don't notice too much of an increase with just one or two articles. But posting roughly 5 or more per day seems to help. With AI you can post hundreds a day. Meaning this might be why they are gaining top positions. It's all down to posting quantities of articles per day. G's way of determining which sites are actually 'in their eyes' more into their business, should we say.

So perhaps, in theory, by stopping posting. Your positioning is decreasing for those that post daily quantities. Most sites at the top do exactly this. It's stupid though. How can quality be found in articles that come in quantities each day. Your going to either burn out or over time not put in as much effort. Sites should not be valued like this. But how else can they be looked at? Without sending an expert. Hence site dominant authorities. Which again, can be rigged.

The whole internet is just corrupt and dirty. I keep saying that I'll return to the site one day but, really, is it worth it? G's logic is terrible. The wrong sites are constantly clogging the top positions due to terrible algos or deals. It's all wrong.

To further confirm my theory. I remember, a while back, reading on Reddit that someone managed to reach the $2,000 mark using AI. All within one single year. They said what helped them the most was posting quantities of articles per day. AI sites are having a field day right now. But AI should not be the answer. They cannot be relied on.

So my bet is to either join the AI or make enough money elsewhere to pay for quantities of articles per day. You can always write them yourself but, you will likely burn out. As I learnt last year. Hence why I ended up hiring a team. Long story short G's logic is quantity over quality.

For those seeking further proof on why Google is a terrible search. I remember looking at Bing. One of my articles was placed before a site with higher dominance. One that had been around longer than my site. I, in G's eyes, should never be ranked above them. But on Bing I was. Why? Because my article featured videos and pictures. Whilst this domain site had neither. That is how sites should be ranked. Both images and videos further help the viewer. Giving a better form in 'helpful content'. Clearly G has no idea what this word even means

[christianz]

@Fluff_Nutz

I would think that large number of articles/day for a small publisher should indicate spam if nothing else.

I would only publish AI articles on a throwaway site, not a site I care about or one that has any loyal following. Nobody wants to read any AI content. There are already more AI generated articles than 7 billion people have time in a day to even read.

As the number of AI articles and content approaches infinity, their value approaches zero.

[Fluff_Nutz]

@Christianz

For me I would never use AI at all. I even have two websites. My main and another that is much smaller and newer that I could technically use for AI as it only has roughly 70 articles on it. But, despite the success of AI sites right now. I cannot stoop to that level. AI should never be the answer. In fact I don't even like AI in search at all. It's technically classed as cheating. It serves no accomplishment. Just pure human weakness and proof that you cannot do it yourself without relying on technology that will never be 100% perfect.

[RedBar]

@ichthyous

I'm giving your robots.txt a trial on two well-trafficked sites to see what / if anything happens. I've been so well-scraped over the past 30 years that I doubt anything will jump out however curiosity has got the better of me.

Whilst overall traffic is down real-world business enquiries are still holding consistent plus, the important bit, new global clients' enquiries are still being generated.

To be honest I cannot imagine what it can be like for those working for someone else / under a performace contract and not having the complete inside information that I do, it must be extremely "exasperating".

[ghostofseo]

first post:

the Sept update was crushing for my site, (not due to use having bad content) but instead what I see as a Google error. Happy to say the traffic as of the 1st is now back to where we were pre Sept 14th and trending up.

If I have learned anything with animal updates and month updates it's to be patient. Sometimes the algo's get it wrong. I'm taking the fields of dreams approach to my site. If I build it they will come.

I wouldn't be wasting my time, energy and breath to create content that wasn't 1000% for the user. Google should be smart enough to figure this out too.

I am seeing lots of really really bad results in search (tons of spam/malware sites) are ranking. I will talk about that in another thread.

[mhansen]

According to SEMrush, I'm still losing far more keywords per day than gaining.

Keep in mind that SEMRush is many days behind in its data. I still see queries that show ranked positions, but the date of their SERP is showing before HCU rolled out, so it's just the fact that it hasn't updated yet, and hasn't registered a drop or increase in positioning. Typically, I find there data trailing quite a bit on the lower volume queries since they don't refresh their own index that often.

[christianz]

Traffic drops further. Core/HCU keeps going.

[puckparches]

Unfortunately, the traffic is still on the decline. I had hoped that the decrease would halt last week, but it seems to be worsening.

[Conro]

My traffic drop again. I don't know the reason. All sites except forum and brand sites have a decline of position in serp.

[Soulofmonk]

More YouTube videos
Reddit threads
Quora threads
People also ask for
More questions
Ads at the top.
CTR has dropped drastically

[System]

The following message was cut out to new thread by engine. New thread at: google/5094672.htm [webmasterworld.com]
9:41 am on Oct 4, 2023 (utc +1)

[renatovieira]

Here the decline continues. One day worse than the other...

[RubicCubed]

From the trial we learn Google alters search queries not to help users but to make Google more profits. This makes it impossible for us to build targeted pages that attract the type of users our pages and topics would appeal to. Maybe Google altering queries also contributes to the very bad conversion rates we see just with Google? Search in Google for an apple and Google returns results for an orange - both fruits but not precisely what we search for. Below is a snippet from a story from someone in the courtroom of Google's trial.

This onscreen Google slide had to do with a “semantic matching” overhaul to its SERP algorithm. When you enter a query, you might expect a search engine to incorporate synonyms into the algorithm as well as text phrase pairings in natural language processing. But this overhaul went further, actually altering queries to generate more commercial results.

<snipped to fair use - ToS #10>

It’s also a guaranteed way to harm everyone except Google. This system reduces search engine quality for users and drives up advertiser expenses. Google can get away with it because these manipulations are imperceptible to the user and advertiser, and the company has effectively captured more than 90 percent market share.

Full story: [wired.com...]

[edited by: not2easy at 12:59 pm (utc) on Oct 11, 2023]
[edit reason] Please see TOS [webmasterworld.com] [/edit]

[BigKat]

Maybe Google altering queries also contributes to the very bad conversion rates we see just with Google?

This certainly would explain the reason why Google traffic, both paid and organic, have worsened over the years and why Google now has the worst converting (buyer) traffic of any search engines. Google really lost their way, in matching websites to user searches, and I honestly doubt they can find their way back. Due to Google's antics, we've been on the sidelines for a while and plan on staying put.

[renatovieira]

Today the drop will be big. Has anyone else noticed extreme low traffic?

[christianz]

Has anyone else noticed extreme low traffic?

Yes, the drop happened yesterday on 12:00 PDT. This is just latest drop after a series of drops since mid September.

[Sodero18]

Yes, huge drop today. No reason for it.

[Fluff_Nutz]

HULK SMASH!

Yes. I too have felt the drop. Quite a big one this time around. It was steady these past few days despite the negligence. But nope Hulk arrived today and smashed the traffic to bits.

[Paco275]

Automatic websites with AI are having a great boom after the update.

<snip>

It only took a few days to reach the top places and have more than 1.4 million views according to semrush.

I am a webmaster from Mexico.

My websites have had a big fall, none of them have been benefited.

[edited by: not2easy at 7:19 pm (utc) on Oct 4, 2023]
[edit reason] Please see TOS [webmasterworld.com] [/edit]

[Soulofmonk]

For some queries, it's like I am searching on YouTube. Every single result YouTube YouTube YouTube.

[System]

The new October 2023 Google Spam Update thread was split off here: [webmasterworld.com...]

[edited by: not2easy at 5:54 pm (utc) on Oct 4, 2023]
[edit reason] split off new update [/edit]

[superclown2]

Why would Google want to do this? First, the generated results to the latter query are more likely to be shopping-oriented, triggering your subsequent behavior much like the candy display at a grocery store’s checkout. Second, that latter query will automatically generate the keyword ads placed on the search engine results page by stores like TJ Maxx, which pay Google every time you click on them. In short, it's a guaranteed way to line Google’s pockets.

Where is the line between unethical actions and deliberate fraud? Just asking.

[edited by: not2easy at 6:10 pm (utc) on Oct 4, 2023]
[edit reason] post returned to monthly thread [/edit]

[RedBar]

Has anyone else noticed extreme low traffic?

I always expect a drop in traffic after a major trade fair and this time is no different therefore I decided to check this period 2022 and, surprisingly, it's pretty much the same at about 77% of average however way down on a couple of years ago.

The hotel venue? This is turning into the jewel in my crown, G seems to love it, I did an update on Saturday for a local / regional promotion and it's already on the first page and ranking above the actual event's page!

[Shepherd]

The band, playing as the water rushes in.
[twitter.com...]

[superclown2]

The band, playing as the water rushes in.

If the allegations were false they should sue, if correct they should face penalties. Simple. Either way they should be investigated but I won't hold my breath.

[tom_010101]

Here's a small excerpt from a German website that deals with recipes. This Google garbage is just beyond words... My website is experiencing something similar. Since August 25, 2023, easily 50% fewer visitors and no one knows why.

<snip>

[edited by: not2easy at 2:44 pm (utc) on Oct 5, 2023]
[edit reason] Please see TOS [webmasterworld.com] [/edit]

[BigKat]

If the allegations were false they should sue, if correct they should face penalties.

I see in some places webmasters/SEOs are calling on the DOJ to subpoena Danny Sullivan to make his statements under oath instead of on a social media site. I personally think this would be an excellent idea. I wouldn't be surprised if he plead the 5th.

[RedBar]

Global site traffic on / off / on again ... UK 20.00 Wednesday traffic off, Thursday 07.00 back on again.

Completely normal traffic, not!

[ichthyous]

I see in some places webmasters/SEOs are calling on the DOJ to subpoena Danny Sullivan to make his statements under oath instead of on a social media site. I personally think this would be an excellent idea. I wouldn't be surprised if he plead the 5th.

Wishful thinking...Danny Sullivan may not even be privy to these manipulations. Companies build knowledge firewalls exactly for this reason. They will never get anything done without the testimony of whistleblowers. Expert witness testimony only goes so far, it needs smoking guns. Google is a trillion dollar behemoth and the Congress is much more feeble now than it was back in the days of real anti-trust regulation. After 40+ years of laissez-faire vodoo Reaganomics and deregulation we have exactly the toothless, inept government that the corporations always wanted. The party in the majority can't even agree on who should be the speaker in the House, let alone deal with new legislation to tackle monopolies like Google. It's divide and conquer.

[BigKat]

Danny Sullivan may not even be privy to these manipulations.

Unfortunately I do agree with you and because of that I can't believe what he or anyone from Google is saying. My guess is some executive wrote a memo, who cleared it with their legal department, and sent it to Danny to post. I doubt he even wrote one word of that post. It's probably just more smoke and mirrors from Google. Regardless, bring him to the stand and let him be questioned or take the 5th under oath. I'd like to see how he, in his limited capacity and in a different department, came to the conclusion Google does not change a user's query.

[Micha]

And the next core update has just been announced by Google

[twitter.com ]

[Atomic]

And the next core update has just been announced by Google

Woohoo! How exciting!

[ins3rt]

I guess more negative news for those who lost traffic... I can´t see anything positive coming from a Core Update from those who last weeks were considered "unhelpful".

[BigKat]

I can´t see anything positive coming from a Core Update from those who last weeks were considered "unhelpful".

The last time any Google update helped us was when Matt Cutts was still there. I expect this October Core Update, like the many before, will help Google increase their revenue at our expense.

[christianz]

It already looks like big further traffic drops are already happening.

[Soulofmonk]

What's even left? Are they going for a kill now? A critical hit has already been done to my site. One basic hit, and my site is done.

[RedBar]

And the next core update has just been announced by Google

Would this be the old Xmas update they used to perform?

[oldog]

bric-a-brac advisor renewed their wedding vows with google
two positions ! in top ten results in the travel sector ! :-)

[mhansen]

Google is quickly going from a search engine, to a single-entity answers engine with ads and widgetry that keep users in it's own system. With AI and all of the content and knowledge they have harvested over the last 25 years, they are proving to us in real-time that they do not need websites to maintain their profitability. I believe we're well past the days of relying on Google to help market our businesses and hope for them to reward our great products, services and information with users from them.

Last weekend I was searching (on a mobile device) for a specific product that I had the manufacturer, product name and part number for. They are a company that does not sell to Amazon and only sell through their distribution network, thus you have to find a local distributor. Ads for Amazon were everywhere. Links to the company were not in the first several organic results, but videos were abundant on how to install, how to measure for them, etc. I scrolled through roughly 20-30 results and then it was literally nothing but youtube video links and ads to any and all kinds of content related to the product search.

They've lost their way.

[BigKat]

They are a company that does not sell to Amazon and only sell through their distribution network, thus you have to find a local distributor. Ads for Amazon were everywhere.

This describes us where our products, not sold on Amazon, are difficult to impossible to be found in Google. We still do rank #1 for some searches, but can't be found because of all the ads. Fortunately shoppers are still finding us using other search engines, and that continues to improve as Google doubles down on their sole focus to drive revenue via ads.

[Fluff_Nutz]

Nooo. I know it was perhaps long overdue but today the UA analytics for my main site has stopped processing new data. Forcing me to switch over to GA4. Gutted. My personal favourite feature in UA was the hourly graph. Telling you at an hourly rate how your traffic was coping compared to the same time yesterday. The whole real time data knowledge was great. Made it interesting to keep up to date with. Alas though, GA4 does not support this. I have played with GA4 a few times and it sucks. This graph no longer exists. Instead it is a dumbed down and terrible version of collecting traffic data. Without the ability to run real time. Not useful and not helpful.

On the other hand, though I still enjoyed keeping that graph around. With Google and their consistent updates and website destruction I guess its not needed anyway. I already know where my traffic is headed. Down a ditch. I wouldn't be surprised if one morning I wake up and somehow find out that the traffic is at zer0. A complete flatline.

I'm once again loosing interest in G's game. I really hope that one day these updates, court cases, fines and everything really bites them. Oh it would be so fun to finally watch them squirm.

On the topic of Google's bad search engine. My father who is forced to look for work keeps arriving at websites that take him nowhere but in an infinite loop. Jobs that look interesting but, once clicked on, just bring him nowhere. Also there is no filtering system implemented. So he gets told about foreign jobs that he, obviously, has no interest in. Yet I bet these type of websites never get hit. Pfft.

[Razorllama]

^ Same here! I knew it was coming, but it still hit me hard. Goodbye Universal Analytics, old friend. You were the best :_;

So what do we think? Google just released another core update, less than a month after the previous one. Are things at Google HQ in hysteric damage control mode, or what? I don't remember two back-to-back core updates with two 'lesser' algorithm updates going between them in the span of a month.

[christianz]

Same as above. GA3 is gone and I can't tell what's going on traffic wise.

[Soulofmonk]

[status.search.google.com ]

Google Search is experiencing an indexing issue

There's an ongoing issue that's delaying the indexing of newly published content. We're working on identifying the root cause.