Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi

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New category carousel listings showing atop results

         

mihomes

7:25 pm on Feb 11, 2017 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Noticed this a few times in the past couple weeks and seems to be specific to the keyword you type of course. Seems that 'anything software' usually shows it - for me at least.

For instance, if I search for 'website software' (hopefully that doesn't break a rule here being generic) the results show :

Software > website

and a scollbar/carousel type thing with decent size logos and the software/products name underneath.

My question is where are they getting this data from? Are these coming from Google Shopping accounts that people have setup or is this being pulled from markup in the site (such as Schema.org)? It doesn't seem to be Google Shopping to me because directly underneath it is the 'shop for website software on Google' box that most of us are familiar seeing with completely different listings shown.

Robert Charlton

11:24 pm on Feb 11, 2017 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Mods note: Thanks, mihomes, for sharing this, and also for being sensitive to the non-promotional aspect of our posting guidelines. Your example is sufficiently generic, I feel, and very definitely worth discussing.


Knowledge Graph carousels...
I'm assuming that these are Knowledge Graph results, results based on "factual lists", as stated in one of the announcements where Google first described its Knowledge Graph carousels....

Explore with the Knowledge Graph carousel in English globally
Sept 5, 2012
[search.googleblog.com...]

Google's early carousels were effectively lists of things, places, "named entities", etc that were classified in ways that put them in the context of easily-defined universes... eg, actors who played James Bond, hotels in specific cities, entertainment groups or credits, events, music, etc.

As the 2012 Google announcement described it...
...drawing on our Knowledge Graph and the collective intelligence of the Web

Where are they getting the data?
How that Knowledge Graph and the "collective intelligence" of the web are assembled is a long discussion, and I'd be guessing at a lot of it. Google made it clear that its movie carousels, eg, were not assembled by spidering IMDB or other sources on the web. My thoughts below are mainly about the algo that is providing structure to these new categories.

Freebase, an open source "collaborative knowledge base" [en.wikipedia.org...] is well known to be one source of the collective intelligence, though. A lot of volunteers spent a lot of time putting it together.

Schema.org markup is another source, but note that Google doesn't simply rely on schema markup by itself. As with business Knowledge Graph listings, eg, where Google uses several channels for confirmation, the schema markup also helps Google in discovery, but relies on other confirming signals as well. Once Google has even a single data point, much less computing power is required for the rest.

How much statistical phrase-based indexing data has been used in Knowledge Graph results isn't clear. Phrase-based indexing had offered ways of using data clusters to help identify topics and entities, and... complete conjecture here... it's possible that something analogous might help provide "match points" for the Knowledge Graph, to then align with other entity information.

What's new about these results...
The new "software" classification in these results is IMO a broader kind of a leap than what has come before, as "software" is less well defined than actors who have played James Bond. What I'm seeing in some cases might push what is commonly considered "software". In the "Software > websites" carousel, "AdSense", eg, is one of the logos included... and it's not what I'd traditionally call software.

I'm assuming that "AdSense" was brought up by the same algo that brought up the rest. I mention this because I doubt that Google is trying to promote its own product here, but we might look for another reason for its inclusion. Clearly, in these software lists, there is a significant size or prominence factor. I'm not sure without Machine Learning tools that we might readily spot other factors.

Also worth noting, in Knowledge Graph fashion, the query changes as the Knowledge Graph hierarchy changes. So, for the carousel display "Software > websites", the query is [website software].

If you click on "Software" above the carousel, you'll get a new, higher level carousel display, with more general types of software... like operating systems, browser names, .NET Framework, Adobe Acrobat, etc being displayed... and the query display has changed to [list of software].

The query [list of browsers] also shows an expected list. If you remove "list of" from your query, Google doesn't return the carousel. It's fairly rough, clearly a trial balloon, and, I'm guessing, also a test, as are all things Google, to see how users deal with it.

With regard to naming specifics in this discussion, I assume that these carousels are going to continue to be general enough that we can mention the queries that bring them up.

Robert Charlton

5:19 am on Feb 12, 2017 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



PS: I'm seeing that "list of" as prefix to a query is triggering more such searches than I anticipated, and not all in the "software" area.

But the pattern with modifiers isn't consistent. Given the result with [website software], one would think that the search for [office software] might be similar... but in fact [list of office software] is necessary to trigger the Knowledge Graph carousel for office software.

Not all of these results are carousels either. eg, [list of electric cars] produces what appears to be a Knowledge Graph result, but it's in tabular form.

Also, some searches produce Knowledge Graph hierarchies, but the query and display pattern is slightly different from the above. A search for [nba] produces a schedule and scores grid that you can shift horizontally for different days with box scores.

To get a team carousel displayed under "NBA > Teams" , the query is [nba teams]. To go a little further into where the data comes from, it's extremely likely that Google pays for current professional sports data, which is on a feed to Google. That's the way it used to work, and I'm thinking it probably still does.

mihomes

6:10 am on Feb 12, 2017 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Robert - thank you for the in-depth response and for the 'generic' agreement. After posting this I realized I had never clicked on any of the results in the carousel that was showing and to my surprise they all link to Google with the particular product clicked on as the search phrase (I did not expect that behavior at all). What I did notice (only in the 'website software' example) is that the data for all of them seem to be coming from Wikipedia. If you click on the carousel, it shows the search for the name, and the Wiki entry is then shown on that results page.

If this is how they are going to handle things then Wikipedia is going to turn into another Open Directory or at least the same problems are going to happen. People signing up as authors to add their own entries, removing/denying competitors entries, etc all because Google is listing results in this fashion on their results.

Robert Charlton

8:18 am on Feb 12, 2017 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



...to my surprise they all link to Google with the particular product clicked on as the search phrase (I did not expect that behavior at all)
That is the standard behavior of these. The carousel "results" lead to more specific but related searches. In a sense, Google is building a large taxonomy whose deeper "branched" results might be personalized or vary over time.

Try searching [james bond movies] to see one of the first Knowledge Graph carousel examples the public encountered. One aspect of these movie results that made them more interesting than the "branded" software results is that, in the serps, beyond the usual suspects (which for movies were IMDB and Wikipedia) and maybe rottentomatoes, you've got some range of possibilities. There are also more ways to break up the upper right Knowledge Graph panel.

Branded software results don't have quite that variety, as, eg, a Microsoft product might have 3 or so official Microsoft pages in addition to Wikipedia in the serp, so almost half the page is gone... and on some software products, Wikipedia can be downright dreadful. The upper right Knowledge Graph product area almost has to come from Wikipedia, as it's the only "neutral" source.

I found the [website software] search to be not very good. The interface does "broaden" out the search, though, by providing a constant interface if you decide to slide the carousel back and forth to compare brands. Not everyone does that with carousels, though, so that's another problem.

As far as I remember, this is Google's first use of the Knowledge Graph carousel for products that create their own verticals, so I feel that these are results worth watching. At the least, they provide very limited clues for how product searches might be taxonomized.