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FTC rumoured to be taking a second look at Google search

         

ecommerceprofit

7:14 pm on May 11, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Just breaking on Politico...FTC taking second look at Google search. With all the lobbyists I'm surprised...

Source: Sources: Feds taking second look at Google search [politico.com]

[edited by: Andy_Langton at 9:33 pm (utc) on May 11, 2016]
[edit reason] Add source [/edit]

tangor

2:21 am on May 15, 2016 (gmt 0)

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More than anything, this is an election year in the USA and the FTC (two Dems and one Rep) will have to face a new administration. If the new one is Dem, then business as usual and no major changes, except for those that fit the social engineering agenda and "free internet" (under govt control, of course).

Smoke and mirrors is what's happening. Raising a faux $hit storm to deflect and muddy the voters and electorate.

I am no longer surprised that some are as rabid about "leave g alone!" as there are those who cry "take g down!" Those who want the status quo haven't been hurt by the changing practices at g. Those who want change have been adversely affected by these changes. Yet, there is some validity to the EU thrust re: competitive (or lack of) practices from the world's largest search engine and how their policies affect major swaths of the web's commerce and entry of new business into the web eco-sphere. The noise about taxes, off shore holdings and accounting practices is a distraction from what appears to be a possible antitrust inquiry which denies participation for some by arcane and obscure ranking factors, or prevents new competition by simply not listing those newcomers where they can be found.

But more than anything, this is simply politics to fill the media front pages with something other than the USA election which (I think some have noticed) is particularly heated and nasty this year. :)

EditorialGuy

3:25 pm on May 15, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Something else to keep in mind: In the U.S., search rankings are "privileged speech" (protected by the First Amendment), according to at least one federal court decision:

[internetlibrary.com...]

The "wiser heads" at the FTC that I mentioned earlier may not want to bog the commission down in a fight over the First Amendment.

glakes

11:55 pm on May 15, 2016 (gmt 0)



More than anything, this is an election year in the USA and the FTC (two Dems and one Rep) will have to face a new administration. If the new one is Dem, then business as usual and no major changes, except for those that fit the social engineering agenda and "free internet" (under govt control, of course).

Very true. Hillary Clinton is quite close with the Obama administration and Eric Schmidt is a known supporter of President Obama. In fact Eric Schmidt was in Obama's Chicago headquarters (known as the boiler room) the night President Obama was reelected. Google's Chairman helped recruit individuals for this effort, select the technology used in the campaign and also coached Obama's campaign manager. Even while Google was under investigation for profiting from illegal pharmacies in the USA, President Obama still extended an invitation to Eric Schmidt and Google's VP at the time (Marissa Mayer) to a state dinner.

Jared Cohen, President of Jigsaw (previously named Google Ideas) was an advisor to Hillary Clinton. Stephanie Hannon, who was a director in Google, is Hillary Clinton's current chief technology officer. It's important to note Jared Cohen's close ties with the State Department, even offering assistance to help overthrow the Assad regime by creating a tool to track and map individual defections in Syria (yes, Google is apparently capable of tracking individuals). A good read is at [dailymail.co.uk...] which also touches on Google's close ties with the State Department while Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State.

It will take an outsider and anti-establishment President to tackle these and many other challenges. Hillary Clinton would likely continue providing the same protections Google has enjoyed under the Obama administration. Trump was not concerned about calling Amazon a monopoly, but will he do the same and pursue legal action against Google if he becomes President? Or will a third party candidate crawl out from the woodworks to guarantee a Hillary Clinton win?

EditorialGuy

3:17 am on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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I thought we were supposed to steer clear of party politics at Webmaster World.

tangor

3:37 am on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Wen google is part of politics some discussion should be allowed. Otherwise general politics is not a good idea.

jmccormac

6:33 am on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Even when Google's involvement in politics, critical part of the equation, Google should be immune from criticism here? No wonder this site is dying on its feet.

Regards...jmcc

mrengine

1:06 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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jmcc is right that politics are part of the equation. But let me ask all of you this: If you were the FTC, what would you suggest changing in Google's serps to be more fair? The reason why I ask this is because my biggest trouble with Google is not where my site ranks, but the quality of visitors they have been sending for over half a year. Where are the buyers going? It's not Adwords, that much I know to be fact. Any FTC investigation should not only focus on ranking and how Google's own interests appear in the search results, but also how users are being profiled and why/where Google is sending them to.

jmccormac

2:03 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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One simple thing that the FTC could do would be to have Google act like a kind of common carrier with its SERPs and stop it from displaying adverts on the SERPs. That "knowlege" graph/Wikipedia scraper and its reframing of website's data as "answers" is clearly and attempt to Yahooicise the SERPs and keep users on the Google properties for as long as possible.

Google's own properties appearing so high in the SERPs and the crowding out of actual SERPs in favour of adverts should also be investigated. Some of the EU charges are based on the promotion of Google properties at the expense of others.

That earlier post appeared a bit garbled (too early in the morning and no coffee). The reality is that Google spends a lot of money on lobbying of politicians and there are many of its FUDbuddies and shills who are all too ready to push the Google Good! line when anyone questions its activities. Not only is Google screwing the US taxpayer with tax avoidance, it is damaging the web.

On the buyers side of things, the dominance of the major players (Amazon/Ebay etc), may be leading to a Walled Garden effect of the type that started with Wikipedia. Almost a generation of schoolkids and third level students have relied upon Wikipedia and rather than going to Google for some question, they now go to Wikipedia. (That loss of traffic is probably behind the "knowledge" graph/Wikipedia scraper effort by Google. Now if you want books, do you go to Google or to Amazon? Amazon has been gradually branching out into other products so that it is in effect a "one stop shop" for a lot of products. As people see this, they go to Amazon rather than to Google. The same applies to Ebay in that users learn that Ebay is a good source for products and they go there instead of Google. Want personal recommendations, Facebook is far better at this than Google. This is the fragmentation of Search from the generic/universal to the specific. It is purely Darwinian and Google is on the wrong side of the web's evolution. Just look at how badly it failed with Social Media. Its Buzz, Plus and other Google efforst just crashed and burned because people use Twitter and Facebook. This shift from Universal Search to Specific Search may be far more dangerous to Google than any FTC action because the Google management seem incapable of coping with it.

Regards...jmcc

EditorialGuy

2:56 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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But let me ask all of you this: If you were the FTC, what would you suggest changing in Google's serps to be more fair?

Again, Google's organic search results are protected by the First Amendment. The FTC has no jurisdiction.

One simple thing that the FTC could do would be to have Google act like a kind of common carrier with its SERPs and stop it from displaying adverts on the SERPs.

And the legal framework for that would be....?

jmccormac

3:34 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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At least a 3 Billion Euro fine? That won't go down well with all those Google fans and shareholders.

[telegraph.co.uk...]

(From this thread on WW: [webmasterworld.com...] )

Regards...jmcc

mrengine

3:42 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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One simple thing that the FTC could do would be to have Google act like a kind of common carrier with its SERPs and stop it from displaying adverts on the SERPs. That "knowlege" graph/Wikipedia scraper and its reframing of website's data as "answers" is clearly and attempt to Yahooicise the SERPs and keep users on the Google properties for as long as possible.

I understand what you are saying about the knowledge graph, because it is outside of the scope of organizing and ranking web pages. Some restrictions on displaying answers, without compensating the source, might be considered by the FTC. Advertisements in general are needed in many business models, but how Google invests in companies and they in turn purchase Adwords ads is something definitely worth looking into because it can cause major disruptions in free markets.

On the buyers side of things, the dominance of the major players (Amazon/Ebay etc), may be leading to a Walled Garden effect of the type that started with Wikipedia.

With all the domain crowding, it would appear you are right. The effect is a much more costly barrier for competition to overcome and the lack of diversity reduces consumer choice - both points I believe the FTC should be interested in.

Google's own properties appearing so high in the SERPs and the crowding out of actual SERPs in favour of adverts should also be investigated.

Do you think labeling Google's properties or their financial interests in other companies would be sufficient to allow consumers to make educated decisions about the search results Google produces by identifying Google's bias in those results? The FTC appears to be fine with labeling ads as ads, and maybe the labeling needs to be expanded.

tangor

3:49 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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One method, not likely to happen, is to break g into geo-specific companies, ie, US, UK, De, Fr, etc.

jmccormac

3:55 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Do you think labeling Google's properties or their financial interests in other companies would be sufficient to allow consumers to make educated decisions about the search results Google produces by identifying Google's bias in those results? The FTC appears to be fine with labeling ads as ads, and maybe the labeling needs to be expanded.
It all depends on how that possible 3 billion Euro fine (approximately US $3.4 billion) works out. By having the European Commission do the dirty work, it would make it a lot easier for the FTC to move against Google as it would already have been charged and fined for this activity. What Google is effectively doing with crowding out the organic SERPs is turning the front page of some SERPs into a rigged Pay For Position search engine. Attacking on this point might be a lot easier for the FTC and since organic SERPs are effectively been crowded out, the whole First Amendment protection (a highly dubious position given that advertising is involved) is a lot more difficult to use as a defence. Highlighting business connections or making these connections visible in SERPs may not work for Google.

Regards...jmcc

jmccormac

4:01 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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One method, not likely to happen, is to break g into geo-specific companies, ie, US, UK, De, Fr, etc.
For the EU? Part of the problem is that revenue is being booked through some of Google's companies in these countries but not being taxed at the normal rates in order to avoid paying US corporation tax rates.

Regards...jmcc

EditorialGuy

5:01 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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By having the European Commission do the dirty work, it would make it a lot easier for the FTC to move against Google as it would already have been charged and fined for this activity.

Antitrust law in the U.S. is quite a bit different from antitrust law in the EU. In the U.S., one needs to show that consumers (not competitors) are being harmed. And again, Google's organic search results aren't subject to FTC regulation.

the whole First Amendment protection (a highly dubious position given that advertising is involved)

Advertising is involved in most media. One would have to be naive to think that, say, The New York Times, Fox News, or Mother Jones aren't protected by the First Amendment because they run ads. Anyway, legal precedent is already on Google's side (See the SearchKing v. Google decision that was mentioned earlier).

MrSavage

5:47 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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The only people who are okay with the Google practices are those who are still profiting in their web ventures. Other people can call a spade a spade regardless of how they are benefiting or not benefiting from a situation. I think that's called credibility?

Regarding the FTC, my feeling is that they just simply do not understand the scope of the issues at hand. Frankly is appears few do. If you listen to benefactors, then there are no issues. When the scales tip, then the FTC might have no choice. However, Google seems pretty good at the PR game so I really don't have much faith.

jmccormac

6:10 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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When the scales tip, then the FTC might have no choice.
If that EU fine goes ahead, the FTC has about 3.4 billion reasons to reopen the investigation. Google already has form with being nailed for a US $500 million settlement for drug dealing.

Regards...jmcc

EditorialGuy

7:37 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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The only people who are okay with the Google practices are those who are still profiting in their web ventures.

It isn't a question of being "okay" or "not okay" with anything. It's about the law and the scope of the FTC's responsibility.

anters

9:05 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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ITT: Google defenders that can't accept Google isn't always a warm & friendly leader but more similar to a profit making online dictatorship. On the other side we have Google whiners that can't accept their lack of work ethic or/and skill set is more responsible for their subpar online performance than Google's increasingly unfair serps. Either way this thread has become more like listening to a group of ants arguing with each other right before they all get stomped out.

aristotle

9:34 pm on May 16, 2016 (gmt 0)

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anters -- The rest of the web itself has already scored several victories over google. It doesn't matter what people say here. Googtle isn't an "online dictatorship" and never will be.

MrSavage

3:43 am on May 17, 2016 (gmt 0)

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@anters, check out the Google forum activity and then you make a judgement call on where things are right now. If you can't figure it out then I'm sorry. When you see a handful (if you're lucky) of active threads per day then you tell me what that says. But this thread is about the FTC which is why it's a discussion opinion piece. We can't SEO our way into this subject can we?

anters

10:49 am on May 17, 2016 (gmt 0)

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lol you are right, this is a opinion piece about the ftc in a google seo website - think about that, it is just too funny

jmccormac

11:16 am on May 17, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Webmaster World is not just a Google SEO website. It covers many other topics. However with Google murdering so many thousands of websites through its various Animal Farm "algorithms" and the dominant position of Google's search engine, it might appear that this forum is mainly about Google and its products.

Regards...jmcc

mrengine

6:04 pm on May 17, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Interesting note about politics and Google, Fox News just published a story today about Google having unfettered access to the White House.

A project examining White House visitor logs shows the Obama administration has extended an open door to Google.

Johanna Shelton, Google’s director of public policy — in effect, the company’s top lobbyist — has visited White House officials 128 times since President Barack Obama took office in 2009.

To put that in perspective, senior lobbyists for other companies in the telecommunications and cable industry — including Comcast, Facebook, Amazon, Oracle and Verizon — have visited the White House a combined 124 times in the same span. (That data goes through October 2015.)

The entire story is at [foxnews.com...]

MrSavage

9:23 pm on May 17, 2016 (gmt 0)

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I guess Fox news isn't worried about their organic rankings. :-) Or I guess we aren't at that level yet but who could say otherwise?

jmccormac

9:26 pm on May 17, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Perhaps Google will start its own news station to compete just as successfully as it did against Facebook, Twitter etc. :) It can't be that hard, can it?

Regards...jmcc

jmccormac

10:09 am on May 19, 2016 (gmt 0)

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Looks like the precedent about SERPs having protection of the First Amendment of US constitution have taken a bit of dent due to a ruling in a Florida case, e-ventures Worldwide, LLC vs. Google. This case about a webmaster's sites being delisted has been allowed to proceed after almost all of Google's arguments have been rejected.

[searchengineland.com...]

Regards...jmcc

Shepherd

10:39 am on May 19, 2016 (gmt 0)

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To be clear, what has happened here is that the Florida trial court has allowed the plaintiff’s case to survive Google’s motion to dismiss at the beginning of the case.


Does not seem like much of a dent...
This 58 message thread spans 2 pages: 58