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Suggestions to increase Google rankings after being away from SEO

     
6:25 pm on Jul 17, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Hello everyone, It has been quite a while since we have posted here on Webmaster World. We have been away from the SEO the past year working on other projects but now we are getting back into it and we are trying to catch up on all the Google changes. We have been working on a eCommerce website recently to improve its Google rankings and I wanted some suggestions from other members on what else we could target to improve the website even more. Here is what we have done so far in the past 45 days.

1. Made the website 100% mobile friendly.
2. Made the website 100% https
3. Changed the overall layout/navigation.
4. Cut excess code to decrease page load time.

This resulted in the following so far from Google Analytics:

1. Bounce rate went from an average of 80% to 5% (From what I gather very few websites have bounce rates less than 10% correct?)
2. Conversions went from a percent to about 2% which is a little above average.

Most of the website traffic is Pay Per Click currently and we have not seen any real increases in organic traffic yet but I suspect that will change shortly due to the decreased bounce rate and increased conversions. Anyone have any thoughts on the timing on the organic timing?

Does anyone have any more suggestions of things we can look at, target and work on?
8:25 pm on July 17, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Check to see if your platform is generating any thin or empty pages and knock those out of Google. Things that add to the URLs like pagination, sort, session IDs, etc. Personally, I always noindex all pages that are for logged in visitors (shopping cart, account details, etc) because unless you're logged in, they're always going to be blank in Google. Keep those puppies out of the search engine.
10:06 am on July 18, 2015 (gmt 0)

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I suspect that will change shortly due to the decreased bounce rate and increased conversions.
I don't think Google will know you are converting better, but well done. The bounce rate is not accurate or extractable but dwell time of chrome users on your site could theoretically be a factor.

Quality links are still the main driver of SEO but more and more users are using Facebook (and to a lesser extent the other social media).
7:41 pm on July 18, 2015 (gmt 0)

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The bounce rate is not accurate or extractable

The bounce rate recorded on Google's visitor logs are 100% accurate.

When a visitor bounces away from a site it is typically a bounce back to Google. That is what is measured. That is the kind of bounce back that has meaning. Nothing to extract. It's all in Google's visitor logs. There has been a considerable amount of scientific research on data mining the traffic logs going back over a decade. There is a certain amount of noise in the signal but that too has been studied and overcome.

Back to the original topic
You may want to cultivate signals of a positive user experience. Those include reviews on third party sites and reviews posted on your site. Identifying who your users are and where they gather online is important because you can then court them. Mindshare building is a part of what I do for my clients and it works to build more sales. Links count. A lot.
6:55 am on July 19, 2015 (gmt 0)

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When a visitor bounces away from a site it is typically a bounce back to Google.


Why is this a bad thing?

I want to check the temperature... clearly if I land on the page I wanted why would I click to a different page?

How much dwell time do you need to read a two or three digit temperature?
11:23 am on July 19, 2015 (gmt 0)

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sooooooooo confusing because we have two definitions of a bounce rate here.

martinibuster you disagree with me yet there is no need too because I agree with you but I was thinking along trinorthlighting's (and now Fathoms) definition of bounce rate is not the same as ours.

I want to check the temperature... clearly if I land on the page I wanted why would I click to a different page?

fathom you would not (100% bounce under your definition), but under martinibuster definition of bounce; is a bounce back to Google (not another page on your website as shown in say Google Analytics) for the same search query that a user would then look to click to another site.

I hope this has cleared up the issue and we can move onto other factors of SEO.
12:30 pm on July 19, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Behaviorial science isn't foolproof.

Neither are links.

Commonly a link is a vouch for or a good UX but I can post a scathing review on a domain with a dofollow link to another domain denoting my complete dissatisfaction in the website but it records as a vouch for nonetheless.
1:23 pm on July 19, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Let's not drag this off topic. But fathom, sounds like you're not familiar with the research so I'll try to fill in the gaps for you in a thumbnail.

The bounce rate that matters is the bounce back to Google and as Johann stated, what happens next matters. Fathom you're right, it only takes a few seconds to read the temps and blow away. That's why they also take into account whether the searcher searches for the same thing (indicative of dissatisfaction) or something else. Whatever other quibbles you might have about the bounce back are no doubt legitimate but after reading about the decades-worth of research, you can be assured those quibbles were taken into account. No doubt a good article on this topic is needed to address those logical quibbles but this discussion is not where I'm going to do it.
11:02 pm on July 19, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Suggestions to increase Google rankings after being away from SEO


Not sure why links are off topic?

Bounce rate went from an average of 80% to 5%


Commonly a sign of PPC implementation only. Does the 80% to 5% ONLY include timeframe of running ads?

PPC results = PPC traffic clicking to buy! Is that from actual PPC Management campaign landing pages or your actual website? If their only choice is to checkout and the traffic is highly targeted to motivated buyers that is the reason for a massive 80 to 5 improvement.

Did your organic ranks improved substantially over that period? I'm betting they did not.

Organically shown expertise in your field will likely drive links, links will give you the ability to redefine your ability to rank (organically) via internal navigation or breadcrumbs to the pages you desire ranks for.
2:19 pm on July 20, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Netmeg, thanks we will check for that today.

Johan007, google does know we are converting better via analytics, we have the eComerce flipped on for the website analytics so they see all the conversions, products we are selling, etc.

All, bounce rates can be a noisy figure, the example of checking the temperature is a correct on, you should have a 100% bounce rate for that. But eComerce is different and Google knows we are an eComerce site and not an informational website. Most of the traffic prior was looking at one page and bouncing, now that has changed and people are browsing for other products and purchases are up which increases page views which is good. Our organic webtraffic (Although it has yet to increase) the bounce rate went from 90% to 5% as well, so I am sure Google will see this as a good sign as well. I am not sure on the timing where we will see an organic increase, but I am sure it will come.

Links are one thing that we are seeing that are starting to come. We see most from pinterest and other sites like that and we are getting traffic from those sites as well.
9:50 pm on July 20, 2015 (gmt 0)

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But eComerce is different and Google knows we are an eComerce site and not an informational website.


What makes ecommerce different?

What evidence is there that shows Google treats all ecommerce website better (or worse) whether it understands you are one or not?

For the record... (IMHO) if you don't attempt to emulate an info site "at all" few will link to you today, and until Google drops its link obsession you won't really improve organically.


Let's not drag this off topic. But fathom, sounds like you're not familiar with the research so I'll try to fill in the gaps for you in a thumbnail.


You are 100% correct... I am NOT familiar with the research. I don't care about the research that produces no meaningful ranking improvement. The research whether valid or invalid show little ranking potential today. It may in the future. Just because you can make your website perform better and induce a bounce rate of zero doesn't really mean anything... unless the output of that provides shown UX by giving you another natural link.

The flaw in the thinking is that an ecommerce site owner will believe they don't need to be an info site or a hybrid site they will similar rank their ad copy and organic searchers will be happy with something that was meant for PPC.

Organic results is about editorial results or shown expertise... it isn't about selling.
10:15 pm on July 20, 2015 (gmt 0)

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People do sometimes link to ecommerce sites, but rarely because of the ecommerce portion of things, unless the community or topic is about deals or something. Usually links to an ecommerce site will have to do with the informational side of things: interesting/funny reviews, user guides for the company's products, customer stories, things like that.

Not sure if that's a possibility for you, trinorthlighting, but it's something to consider.
1:43 am on July 21, 2015 (gmt 0)

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@trinorthlighting - it is my understanding that general consensus is that it would be too time/processing power expensive for Google to use Google Analytics data. Also, why would Google Search (organic) care about how you treat or deal with email, PPC, banner advert etc visitors - and how can they measure it for the 2/3 of people who don't use Google Analytics? - they probably don't use that data because its too expensive. I think Matt Cutts has covered this before.

So, what can Google measure for every website in its index? - In short, some of the things Google organic can measure are:- how good you are at getting and how good you are at treating the organic visitors Google gives you in comparison to other websites in the SERP's. These two factors combined (and probably with a few other UX factors included) serve to answer - How relevant is this website, to the query.

The questions you probably should be asking on each page is:- How can I make each of my web pages more relevant to the query a user would be performing. How can I better serve and help those visitors once they arrive.

This boils down to .. get organic visitors, and keep them. A/B Test. Repeat. And do it better than those around you.

note: I believe confusion exists with converting/conversion when Google says it, and what they likely mean. They are probably not referring % of visitors to sales - they are asking the question, how good is this website at helping people - how good is it at converting.
2:50 am on July 21, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Fathom - Google classifies websites (Blogs, informational, eccomerce, news, etc.....) so I am sure there are different ranking factors for different types of websites and I am sure page views do matter for eccomerce because I know they used to years ago. I also remember TEDSTER speaking about these when he used to research all the Google Patents and I should dig through some of his old posts to find that.

Dipper- we have analytics tracking on all pages, so Google sees everything on this website no matter who comes to visit it. Now, there is some debate on if they use it or not, I would venture to say they do use some of the information. Why have such an expensive program running in the background for all websites on the web and not use it? If you ever take a year or so old website that has never signed up for analytics and sign it up for analytics, you will see that Google has already populated in information from the past when you finally turn it on and start looking at the information. So, Google is already footing the expensive bill for that and I am sure they are not doing it just to spend money. I am more than sure they are somehow using that for ranking information.

Dymero- We are getting links now from people, most are interest and other types of social media links where people are sharing pictures, sales info, etc.. so links are slowly going up.

I am going to go through and start checking title tags now (I am sure these still matter), but do keywords meta tags even matter these days for SEO?
3:10 am on July 21, 2015 (gmt 0)

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@trinorthlighting - you should probably check this official Google video by Matt Cutts - [youtube.com...]
3:51 am on July 21, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Fathom - Google classifies websites (Blogs, informational, eccomerce, news, etc.....) so I am sure there are different ranking factors for different types of websites and I am sure page views do matter for eccomerce because I know they used to years ago. I also remember TEDSTER speaking about these when he used to research all the Google Patents and I should dig through some of his old posts to find that.


Not sure I understand your meaning. Whether Google distinguishes or classifies websites in different categories like: blogs, informational, eCommerce, news, etc., that doesn't mean they have different algorithms for each.

As for Google Patents - reading the patent details does not imply that was implemented and this video explain that [youtube.com...]

but do keywords meta tags even matter these days for SEO?


Meta Keyword [youtube.com...]
Meta in general [youtube.com...]
Meta Description [youtube.com...]
5:25 pm on July 21, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Thanks fathom.

Dipper, that video is from 2010 and I am sure it is very outdated. Google collects data on every website and I would say 90% of that data Google collects you can find via Analytics reports. So, does Google use data to rank your website? Yes it does. Can you access most of that data in Analytics? You sure can. Take links for example, I can easily find the links via Analytics that have weight to them. It is also interesting to see the intelligence events reporting in Analytics since Google assigns them an importance graph to the reports.
7:59 pm on July 21, 2015 (gmt 0)

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I should have mentioned that I was speaking to links on non-social websites. For the site I've worked on, we've had some success sharing ecommerce pages on social, especially for top-sellers.
8:10 pm on July 21, 2015 (gmt 0)

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So, does Google use data to rank your website?


Whether it does or doesn't isn't that important. Just data is pointless and most of what you have done already has almost no impact on ranks or very little impact. You are, in fact, categorically suggesting the use of Adwords has an impact on organic results.

But don't be surprised if the ranks you expect never materialize. Sticking to the eCommerce ONLY website is a flawed strategy for organic results. Google doesn't care which site ranks it only cares about satisfying searchers queries... PPC handles "buy now" organic results is about information. Lack of information implies lackluster content and few links unless your plan is to manipulate results with unnatural links.
8:24 pm on July 21, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Meta Keyword [youtube.com...]

Everyone should watch at least three seconds of this because, well, hahahahaha. (2009? That long ago? I thought 2010 or even 2011.)
8:54 pm on July 21, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Fathom, I have to differ with your opinion because our rankings organically have materialized today. Organic traffic had a huge boost today and I am sure a few links from pinterest did not cause the increase. The increase came from the website redesign and using analytic data to target specific data relevant to eccomerce types of websites and the users that come to shop on the website. It would make sense because Google wants to satisfy eccomerce searches by sending people to relevant, converting websites.

I am pulling all the keyword tags off the site to make the page load a bit quicker, never really liked that tag.

What are everyone's thoughts on w3c compliance these days? Google does not have an issue indexing our website but has anyone had a slight boost in ranking from that these days?
9:56 pm on July 21, 2015 (gmt 0)

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w3c compliance

Can anyone point to an unambiguous case where changing something (html and/or css) in order to make it validate turned out to be actively and permanently harmful to your site's standing? If no, then why don't you just do it anyway for your human users' sake?
11:58 pm on July 21, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Interesting topic for an SEO time machine conversation as it doesn't seem like it changed much in a year but I could consider some of the shifts and trends pretty substantial and you could get bitten if you're not careful.

While the basics of SEO hasn't changed that much, the new substantial highlights that come to mind would are as follows:
  • Responsive Web Design if you expect to show up in mobile listing, otherwise you'll be desktop results only
  • HTTPS as they've been dropping hints you'll be dropping below other sites with HTTPS only soon, one way to push the spam down for sure
  • Thick original content cut as thick as good bacon, no more thin content or placeholder pages unless you want a ding
  • Use Auto-Suggest search topic data as much as possible as auto-suggest killed the long tails
  • Canonical meta tags in ALL your page headers, use full paths to avoid getting multiple URLs to the same page, or hijacking attempts
  • Unique product descriptions, the stuff from the manufacturer will put your page in the gutter
  • Disavow any IBL (inbound links) from crap sites to avoid the appearance of any improprieties, such as paid links. So many sites did such bad things that disavow services is the new SEO gold rush of late.

Probably missed some stuff but that's the basics over the last couple of years that stand out in my mind

Then there's the usual stuff we've been using forever:
  • Inbound Links (see disavow above if you missed it)
  • Outbound Links and slap rel=NOFOLLOW on the ones that aren't authority sites
  • On Page SEO (titles, meta, h1, h2, alt tags, etc.)
  • Great green gobs of greasy grimy ORIGINAL fat thick content
  • Use SE Friendly URLS
  • SMO (social marketing) which is just IBLs (Inbound links) big whoop, same as forum spam IMO but tweet it, facebook it, pin it, reddit, maybe even stumble, just don't bother with My(wasted)Space anymore ;)
  • Catalog Index (sitemap) page to bring everything important closer to the top to make sure it gets crawled, flatten out a potential deep crawl. I make a complete product catalog index page with EVERYTHING in the catalog on one page, did it for all my customers too, it worked wonders for a deeply nested catalog site.
  • Then of course sitemap files, robots.txt, server headers (x- tags), etc., the fine print detail stuff
  • Make sure your IP and domain aren't in any DNSBL's before wasting too much time ( [dnsbl.info...] )
  • Unique IP addresses
  • ... and most importantly, do NOT forget to set the revisit-after meta property, most imporant

The revisit after was a test and my sick sense of humor.
If ANY of you thought I was serious, find a new vocation.
From Google itself, reiterating what real SEO's already knew: [developers.google.com...]
and revisit-after, supposedly used to tell search engines how often to recrawl the page. To our knowledge only one search engine has ever supported it, and that search engine was never widely used
If memory serves it was a Canadian SE long since extinct but for some reason people think this works and it never did.

If you see anyone or any site promoting revisit-after as a valid meta tag, and there's a TON that do, then you know they do NOT know what they are doing, run away little boy, run away.

The bounce rate recorded on Google's visitor logs are 100% accurate.


This needs more transparency so we stop throwing bones at the black monolith.

Lot's of speculation and everyone is partially right but even a multiple page visit that lasted too short to read could be a bounce so let's stop guessing, perhaps someone can find an actual definition.

All I know is I've seen a few people switch to HTTPS magically claim a wild decrease in bounce and it's not possible. People don't notice the difference, they don't really look for it until they're about to give their CC number, so IMO this is bogus but I don't know what's causing it, just that you're not the first to claim it. People don't just go "WOW! LOOK! HTTPS! WE CAN STAY HERE ALL DAY!" not buying it unless the pages changed substantially. I don't think anyone else really pays attention except for a few with OCD that I know and they also hit the shift key 3 times for good luck before hitting ENTER

I digress....

Just do what you did that worked before and you'll be fine, unless you did bad things then not so much ;)

YMMV

P.S. The Unique IP address was also old SEO's wives tales crap spread by old SEO's wives except you have to have a unique IP for HTTPS now so isn't that an amusing turn of events that they've inadvertently made something that was an urban cyber myth true! Anyone that ever used shared hosting and ranked like crazy knew that the single IP address for a bazillion hosting accounts on one server meant the IP was meaningless, not a bad neighborhood indicator or any other silliness. The only thing a shared IP could do is get your email blocked in a DNSBL because one of your neighbors spammed, and/or possibly set off the safe surf warning page if they got malware but I'm pretty sure that's only by domain these days but I'd have to look it up to verify.

Just put your best foot forward, do NOT buy links or any other shady crap and you'll be just fine.

Live long and prosper online.

P.P.S. I only post the misinformation about the revisit-after and unique IP to see if anyone was awake and/or skipping thru as I did clarify and let them off the hook. Basically checking to make sure people are actually paying attention in class.
12:10 am on July 22, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Then: "Build and visitors will come."

Now: "Build and scrapers will come."
1:05 am on July 22, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Interesting... glad you worked it out.
1:24 am on July 22, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Chances are that in the past you targeted keyword phrases, but not the broader implications of those phrases. So it's very possible that visitors may come to your site, look around, not find what they want, and leave.

I think you need to examine who's going to be visiting your pages, what stage these visitors might be in the buying/customer cycle, and how you can satisfy them and keep them on your site.

What with personalization, query rewriting, and algorithms that are more sensitive to user experience, you need to target for a wider range of user intent than what you've probably been used to doing in the past. This doesn't mean more pages with subtle long-tail variants... this means building a site to keep customers and potential customers engaged over the life of your product.

While to a degree this should have always been true of a site, IMO it's much more important now than it has been in the past. Google's got a longer and wider memory than it's ever had before, and is constantly adding new factors to what it's evaluating algorithmically.
2:51 am on July 22, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Then: "Build and visitors will come."

Now: "Build and scrapers will come."


LMAO - my history was always scrapers coming, they just came faster and more of them now is all. Even way back in the day people stole stuff right down to my logo. The letters I used to send... sigh
11:56 am on July 22, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Thoroughly review the rammarg-deeps of the site with a magnifying glass, or even better, under a microscope, and make as many improvements as possible, even if some can't be seen if you blink -- This will not likely have an immediate effect, will probably only be halfway direct, and many will likely argue the rammarg-deeps don't matter much if at all, and they may be correct, especially in the form of instant ranking gratification, but over time? Well, only time itself will tell what effect, if any, paying careful attention to the little details found in the rammarg-deeps of a site will have on the site's rankings, but the chances of the effect being negative, or the time spent being wasted, are small, based on the studies and information I've seen.
12:36 pm on July 22, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Regarding unique IPs and SSL...

We're upgrading our server software to support TLS v1.2 and the technician noted:
"One of the advantages of CentOS6/7 is the SNI support. This allows you to not need dedicated IP addresses to run SSLs."

YMMV
4:52 pm on July 22, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Thanks Bill, Robert and the Mad Guy, Those are some great things to look into. I am craving a big BLT sandwich for lunch for some odd reason......
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