Urgent Help Needed With Reconsideration - Thin Content Penalty

[Ecopac]

Hi Guys

I am in desperate need of some help. 2 weeks ago I received a Manual Penalty from Google for 'Thin Content' on my website.

I have since had 2 reconsiderations rejected, the latest coming this morning.

I am literally at a point where I just don't know what else to do, and I need your help.

A couple of things before I move on, I work in the <very competitive financial niche> industry which I appreciate may be an issue for some, but I am not a spammer. I have been running my business/website for 2 years - I don't offer <products>, just affiliate with the actual <suplier> and offer the public a site to come to when they want to avoid the brokers that do actually spam.

Because of the nature of what I do, I appreciate I am under constant scrutiny of Google, but I have always played by their rules, I no follow everything and NEVER build any links. I am just a normal person trying to make a living and at the moment Google is on it's way to putting me out of business.

So, here's the deal, I own this website <snip> and it's been up and running about 18 months. Everything has been going great until this penalty.

Everything on my site has been written by me, everything is unique 100%. I have over 70 pages on the site and these are my stats from Google Analytics from mid August to mid September:

Visits: 33,663 Pageviews: 213,285 Pages/Session: 6.34 Duration: 00:05:09 Bounce Rate: 15%

Now in my opinion, a site with those kind of stats surely wouldn't be considered to have Thin Content - people are obviously reading the posts on the site and spending a decent amount of time there.

I have read, watched and digested every piece of info they give you about Thin Content and I just cannot see how my site fits into any of that. There's no doorway pages, no scraped content, no jibberish, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I am at the point now where I genuinely do not know what they want from me. I have made changes but obviously they're not enough. I cannot just add more content - there is no need to.

If you are in the UK, search <very competitive phrase> and look at some of the competition I have - they have FAR less information on their sites but have not received a penalty, and just yesterday I came across this website <snip> which is an almost exact copy of my website - and it's indexed and starting to rank.

I haven't slept for nearly 2 weeks now, it's really affecting my life and I am seriously concerned I am not going to be able to get this website back.

Please, can you look past the nature of the industry I work in and and look at this from a webmaster point of view - what more do I need to do to get out of this penalty?

I can't go on the Google Webmaster Forums as I instantly get shot down for working in <my industry>.

Thank you for any help or advice you can offer.

[edited by: aakk9999 at 10:25 am (utc) on Oct 7, 2014]
[edit reason] Exemplified, sorry, no public site reviews and no niche disclosure for New Members [/edit]

[Ecopac]

So what you're saying is that comparison sites should not exist? Effectively they're all just affiliate sites.

That doesn't make sense to me, affiliate or not I am not just giving up my whole business on that basis.

I am not using generic content that's widely available, like I am selling camera's or something and posting up content the manufacturer gives, it's totally different.

I don't just have reviews either, there's a lot of really useful articles on there about how to manage these types of loans, help setting up payment plans, dealing with Continuous Payment Authority, claiming money back from unauthorised transactions - it's not all about the sell.

[EditorialGuy]

So what you're saying is that comparison sites should not exist? Effectively they're all just affiliate sites.

Whether a site should or shouldn't exist and whether Google wants to display that site in its SERPS are two different things.

I don't just have reviews either, there's a lot of really useful articles on there about how to manage these types of loans, help setting up payment plans, dealing with Continuous Payment Authority, claiming money back from unauthorised transactions - it's not all about the sell.

Again, maybe it's your niche, and you aren't making it obvious enough to visitors (including skeptical visitors from Google) that your site is an information site, and that affiliate links are a side dish.

Or maybe your site is an affiliate site with its informational articles as a side dish. If that's the case, you may need to approach your topic from the opposite direction.

[netmeg]

Yes, but are you the only one who publishes these types of articles?

Personally, I believe at some level it's not a question of thin or duplicate *content* as much as thin or duplicate *business model* If you are not adding significant unique value, you are going to have a hard row to hoe in 2014.

[trabis]

I am a new user looking for the best widget for me. I look around and all widgets are 5 stars, that does not help me. I do not want to loose time reading all the reviews, I just want you to tell me which one goes well on me. I do not need another mirror.

I wish I could just check some boxes, enter some values and get the best widget. Only then I would be interested in reading reviews and if not satisfied, asking for the second best.

I would 'no index' the reviews and get my hands on php to build a new user experience.

[Ecopac]

Honestly, I've not found 90% of the articles I write anywhere else, and that's the truth.

Maybe Editorial Guy is right, more focus on the 'help' side of things and less on the 'sales' side will help.

I've already started to address this, I've removed all but 1 outbound link from the reviews so the user has to read the article before clicking off the site to the loan provider

Given the risky nature of the industry i work in, I believe that sites like mine are essential to the consumer, they stop them approaching rogue loan companies or illegal credit brokers.

How much Google understand about this industry in the UK is unknown though...

[Ecopac]

Thanks Trabis - I do get what you're saying.

I have already dabbled in that side of things, however in this industry it is nigh on impossible to make full, accurate comparisons on a monetary level. The variance in APR, subsidiary costs (application fees/transfer fees etc) and the varying durations you can take the loan over make this kind of thing extremely hard. They're not like personal loans of X amount (usually a whole number in '£000's) over X amount of years - we're talking about any amount up to £1500 that can go up in £1 increments over anywhere from 1 day to 365 days.

I could offer this comparison facility, but it wouldn't be 100% accurate.

This is something I am working on however ready to launch in January when the price cap comes into play.

It's a facility I wish I could offer but realistically its just not feasible.

Point taken on the reviews.

[Kelowna]

That doesn't make sense to me, affiliate or not I am not just giving up my whole business on that basis.

Its not about how you feel, it's about how Google feels.

Like I said, I have been doing the exact same as you since the 90's and have been caught in the same situation many times, did I give up my whole business on that basis? NO!

What did I do, I changed so the sites conformed and stopped getting caught.

My #1 rule is

Never Fall In Love With a Site/URL

If they get hit, move on, same site, different url, and stay away from the big ticket terms that get closely watched so the new does not get hit.

Next, build more sites, diversify, build more, diversify... that will protect your income.

Did I mention...

NEVER FALL IN LOVE WITH YOUR SITE?

[Ecopac]

Ha, unfortunately that's exactly what I have done - I feel very protective of my sites because I'm proud of what I've achieved - I also appreciate that is does blinker you to what the outside world sees.

I never intentionally went for ranking for the main keyword, it just happened. I have less than 80 links pointing to my site and it was just ranking organically.

I understand moving forward this is the approach I need, I get that, but right now the focus is getting this site back up so that I can move forward - without this site getting back up there's no income = no money to invest in diversifying.

If i had a backup plan I'd gladly forget it and move it to a new domain, wait for it to rank etc etc but it's just not an option for me right now.

[Ecopac]

Of course, I should always have been prepared for this happening to me given the high risk business I work in - that's a cross I have to bear right now

[Kelowna]

without this site getting back up there's no income = no money

That is why you need to get it on a new domain TODAY! So it can be ranking next week and get the money coming back. I have it down to 5 days from the launch of a site to getting the first sales/leads.

It will take a LOT LONGER, if at all for Google to change their mind, take action NOW, grieving time is over.

I don't have any PD loan sites on your side of the ocean, if I did I could help you out in ranking faster.

Good Luck

[Ecopac]

But wouldn't moving to a new domain just end me up in the same problem later down the line? Ranking a pdl site here takes forever, not a week!

[Ecopac]

Re; the earlier post, I had the penalty on the 24th and the message came through on the 25th.

[Kelowna]

Same problem unless you change the site up... like over optimize for keywords you dont want to rank for.

Ranking a pdl site here takes forever, not a week!

Yup, same thing I tell my competition, but in reality days.

Need to get back to work... good luck

[trabis]

And that was how Google lost the war against GSA. The end.

[Ecopac]

*Sigh* Another rejection. I've been implementing everything that I can that everyone here and on the Webmaster forums has suggested, but nothing is working.

I know they have the ability to add messages to their refusals, why can't they communicate better.

Weirdly every time I get a response (a refusal) it comes through at the same time, around 00:20am, sometimes I wonder if a human is actually looking at the site, or if it's just under a 'You're never getting this site back, no matter what you do we will keep sending this message' type area.

[edited by: Ecopac at 8:34 am (utc) on Oct 11, 2014]

[aakk9999]

I am sorry to hear this.

Do you put your effort in writting reconsideration request and detailing all changes you have done on the site?

[Kelowna]

'You're never getting this site back, no matter what you do we will keep sending this message' type area.

Your url appears to be tagged as an affiliate site (thin), optimize it for Bing and get something new for the Gorg without the affiliate links.

[Ecopac]

So a quick update, I went away for a couple of weeks and built a brand new homepage with an interactive table, removed all categories from the site and moved every review into just 1 'review' category. Removed pages they may not have thought as relevant including a few blog posts. Added privacy and website terms and conditions.

Rejected.

Flat out rejection, this is now 5 rejections. All I get back is the generic email from them, no guidance, nothing.

Literally facing a brick wall now and I think the only option is for me to walk away from it, I am not sure anything I do is going to get me out of it, so is there any point trying.

I've tried doing everything right, the way I should. From my analytics is was clear people WERE enjoying my content, yet obviously one Google employees opinion is enough to take you down.

[chalkywhite]

Is the site a flat site or CMS? If its a CMS does it use Tags..Categories etc that may cause multiple URLS for the same page, causing the thing content?

[Ecopac]

It's wordpress, but I've already removed every tag and all of the categories, still no good

[rish3]

I've been implementing everything that I can that everyone here.

My original advice holds. Take the whole site, save it somewhere, and wipe it clean. Clean meaning, nothing indexed in Google but a blank home page.

Write 10 lengthy (1000+ words) articles that are undeniably well researched, detailed, and helpful (and not sales oriented, in ANY WAY).

Add in a few original charts, graphs, or photographs. Publish those, along with legit "contact us" and "about us" pages. Make sure all of the new stuff gets published to brand-new urls that haven't been indexed before.

Submit the reconsideration. If it really is good content, they'll approve it.

When you file the reconsideration, swallow your pride and use a humble, apologetic tone. Stay brief, but do call out anything special about the new content that makes it unique or authoritative.

SOME TIME AFTER THE RECONSIDERATION IS GRANTED, you can try to resurrect your comparison functionality.

This isn't guesswork on my part. I've done it. Same "thin content" penalty.

[aakk9999]

And if you do as rish3 above suggests, here are couple of good threads on writing reconsideration requests that may help you write a good one.

Reconsideration Requests - are some responses automated?
http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4325425.htm [webmasterworld.com]

And a very good thread in suporter's section:

My Google Reconsideration Request: need a sharp review
http://www.webmasterworld.com/supporters/4269251.htm [webmasterworld.com]

[n0tSEO]

Kelowna, the problem with what you're saying is that Ecopac can't have that website or a similar website if he wants to stay in Google.

If what you say is true (actually, I don't think the situation is so black & white), then Ecopac is better off without Google at this point. There are other sources of traffic he can leverage.

[Ecopac]

The thing is, yes it's an affiliate site but as my business is an affiliate business,theres no way of avoiding me having links on there. I cannot believe they have some kind of conspiracy to never rank affiliate sites.

Thanks for the info too guys, Rish I may well have to take that route. Thing is, if I do that to me that's making a site for Google, something they tell us not to do. But I understand it may be the only way.

N0tseo - Google really is my only platform in this industry to be honest if I want to attract good quality customers.

Just fed up with this brick wall they have put up and seeing far worse sites still ranking. There's even another site that literally copied my site exactly and that's now starting to rank which has really annoyed me.

They've also suspended my adsense account because my site is in violation of their rules, so for the few visitors coming from Bing and directly, I can't even make any money out of them.

[EditorialGuy]

The thing is, yes it's an affiliate site but as my business is an affiliate business,theres no way of avoiding me having links on there. I cannot believe they have some kind of conspiracy to never rank affiliate sites.

I suspect that, from Google's point of view, there's a difference between informational sites that use affiliate links and sites that are built for the purpose of affiliate marketing. Here's what Google has to say about affiliates:

[support.google.com...]

Also, if you're in an industry that tends to attract spammers and scammers, it's certainly possible that Google will hold your site (and other sites in your industry) to a higher standard than it might otherwise do.

[Ecopac]

That's food for thought and kind of ties in with what Rish was saying..

It's a different approach but I see how it works now. An information site primarily with affiliate links in there (carefully placed) not an affiliate site with some information in there.

Not sure how I'd go about laying out a site like that. Any good examples out there?

Thanks for the replies guys it's all helping

[gjensen]

It could be the authors and any links to the authors pages. We got hit with a thin content penalty and after a lot of back and forth with Google the problem was that some of the freelance writers we used, even though they provided quality content to us, were on Google "bad author" list and therefore our site was in a considered to be in a "bad neighborhood".

Google specifically mentioned bloggerlinkup freelance written articles and author bio's listed on odesk, linkedin etc where they mentioned that they wrote SEO articles.

Ultimately, we had to take down 100's of articles to get back in the index. As a publisher this is the same as censorship and unconscionable to band writers who are only trying to earn a living.

If these type of policies were in effect when Mark Twain and other writers were trying to get started we would probably have never had a stories like Tom Sawyer.

Due to this penalty, we filed a complaint as part of the Anti-trust Suit in the EU. We asked that as part of the settle Google be required to specifically list the reason for the penalty and that they warn websites and give them xxx days to correct the problem before they are removed from the index.

We also asked for something like Google insights for page speed to be set up where webmasters could submit pages and Google would tell them if the page violated any of their policies.

[Ecopac]

I'm the only author! I write everything myself from my experiences within the industry. It's all unique and I've never paid anyone to write an article.

Good point though. Some kind of warning system would be great, but it'll never happen. They answer to nobody.

[Planet13]

Ultimately, we had to take down 100's of articles to get back in the index. As a publisher this is the same as censorship and unconscionable to band writers who are only trying to earn a living.

If these type of policies were in effect when Mark Twain and other writers were trying to get started we would probably have never had a stories like Tom Sawyer.

I'm sorry, but did you just compare "SEO writers" to Mark Twain?!?!?!

[Dymero]

Ecopac, you might want to find an informational site that has affiliate links to Amazon. Not all are good examples, but many are. Basically, you want to make it seem as if the links are an afterthought, not the main point of the page. That's really the only way you're going to avoid being labeled as a thin affiliate page.