Panda 4.1 Rolling Out

[netmeg]

Based on user (and webmaster!) feedback, we’ve been able to discover a few more signals to help Panda identify low-quality content more precisely. This results in a greater diversity of high-quality small- and medium-sized sites ranking higher, which is nice.

Depending on the locale, around 3-5% of queries are affected.

Google+:
https://plus.google.com/+PierreFar/posts/7CWs3a3yoeY [plus.google.com]

(sorry, it's https so it won't link)

Searchengineland:

http://searchengineland.com/panda-update-rolling-204313 [searchengineland.com]

[edited by: aakk9999 at 11:40 pm (utc) on Sep 25, 2014]
[edit reason] Made link clickable [/edit]

[Saffron]

Broadway: That's what I've been looking at. Pages with a fast bounce rate and pages which aren't viewed much and editing them. Plus I'm a considerably better writer now than I was in the early days so can and am really adding value to the pages.

Of course some are just on topics which are pretty obscure and not many people searching, but still, I want them to be the best pages for information on that topic.

Right now, my site seems to have bounced back, but it is early days. I hope it stays this way, it's been a horrible year, I hope this is the start of things turning around.

[Broadway]

I'm personally not a big fan of the author over on SEWatch that writes about panda. But I would say that that's the single authority on this subject.

I suffered for years with panda (April 2011, panda 2.0). And for years read the crap printed by people giving advice on how to recover ( including the garbage stated by google inc employees themselves).

Looking at landing page data gives you an objective way to evaluate your site and for certain learn what google considers your weakest pages.

[Saffron]

Another way I looked at it was the better the content, the more people would want to link to it. I've stated many times that I don't participate in link building (I'm way too lazy for starters), but in the past have had reputable sources (including sites such as BBC and other 'experts') publishing links to my site/articles in the news and on TV. So, I'm indirectly link building by adding valuable content that people want to share and hopefully over time, reducing my reliance on Google for traffic.

I found a lot of Panda information was just plain old common sense really. I don't think I ever really got a great deal of useful information from it. Maybe that's just me.

[Sand]

Did you basically gain back what you lost with Panda 4, or did you only regain part of what you lost, or did you gain more than you lost thereby reaching new heights?

Too early to say yet. It's still building. Late last week I was up 20-30% week compared to the same days the week before. Today, that's built up to 50% hour by hour.

We'll see what happens in the coming days, but if the current pattern holds I should be up a little compared to pre 4.0.

[seoskunk]

I don't think this is done yet, I have been following the update and it almost feels like its on pause right now. They said it would roll into next week so those that fallen, "don't despair yet" and those that gained "don't count your chickens"

[getcooking]

I don't think this is done yet

I have to agree. I've been following Panda closely since 2011 and this has been the longest, most unstable rollout I think I've seen yet. We've had massive ups and downs this entire week when normally we'd see a few days then the flux for my site would be over (even if it was still rolling out for other sites). I don't feel like my site has been hit but the flux has been enormous. Several sites in my niche who were hit by Panda 4 for the first time have recovered substantially and a large percent of them haven't made any changes as far as I can tell. This is a curious Panda update.

[Clay_More]

I would think this is the most important thing I could tell anyone suffering from Panda is this:
Read the articles that have been published on SearchEngineWatch about Panda recovery.

They tell you how to use Google Analytics (mostly landing page data) to see how Google interprets the worth of your individual pages.

Bottom line, if you have any page Google doesn't send traffic to, it's a sign that they don't respect it
(either because of duplicate/thin content, poor user engagement, whatever...).

So either no-index it, combine it with other pages and 301 redirect, do the Prev/Next thing, or else 404 it.

I would think that all websites are affected by the 20/80 rule.
80% of all of the good stuff about your site (traffic, ad revenue, whatever...) comes from just 20% of your pages.

Slash and burn the non-engaging 80% (via one of the methods above) and you'll never miss them.
And there's a good chance you'll loose your Panda penalty in the process because to Google the metrics of your site will look stronger.

Good post.

[Saffron]

Slash and burn the non-engaging 80% (via one of the methods above) and you'll never miss them.

But what about those articles that are on rare topics? I would definitely say that 80% of my traffic comes from the top 50 (at the most) articles. But I would have probably 400-500 articles on the site. The other articles do bring in people, ranging from a few hundred to a few dozen (if that). But some of the topics are just not in high demand.

Right now I'm writing about something that an 'expert' has seen TWICE in his 37 year old career, so it is pretty uncommon, but I'm writing it because it is useful information to have on the site. It might actually help somebody. I think we are getting so caught up with appeasing the Google Gods that we sometimes forget that the purpose of our sites (content sites that is) is to actually provide useful information. Not all of it will be massively popular. But if it helps one person, then that's good.

I could slash and burn a heap of my articles, but they've taken time, they're useful and hopefully they help people. I'm not culling them because of Google.

Maybe that's why G hates me ;)

[diddlydazz]

Bottom line, if you have any page Google doesn't send traffic to, it's a sign that they don't respect it
(either because of duplicate/thin content, poor user engagement, whatever...).

So either no-index it, combine it with other pages and 301 redirect, do the Prev/Next thing, or else 404 it.

very good advice

to extrapolate slightly further....

do not just look for how much traffic a page receives, also look at the time spent on each individual page

some pages may not receive a lot of traffic due to their subject matter but the visitor may still find the content relevant and useful which can lead to social promotion, IBLs, etc. which can help the site as a whole

look at as many parameters as you can before deciding to "noindex" a page.

for example, check the bounce rate coupled with time-on page (bounce rate, due to the diversity of content, is not a good indicator on its own)

if you find a high bounce-rate along with a very low (seconds) amount of time spent on the page then either, improve the content, or, noindex the page (IMHO noindex for googlebot only, until Bing releases a similar algo change)

[RedBar]

I don't think this is done yet

Me neither, my traffic's been fluctuationg all over the place since last Thursday however late last night into this morning, UK time, it seemed to be stabilising the numbers to where it usually is.

But what about those articles that are on rare topics?

Absolutely, I have products which are researched maybe only 10/20 times a month maximum yet they all rank #1 because of the information about them. These products are not only fairly rare in my trade but many are very expensive therefore architects and specifiers need to have access to the correct information when considering using them.

Removing them would negate the entire point of many of my sites.

[londrum]

Bottom line, if you have any page Google doesn't send traffic to, it's a sign that they don't respect it
(either because of duplicate/thin content, poor user engagement, whatever...).

not necessarily, you must just have poor internal linking. i know page rank is a bit old hat these days, but doesn't it still get passed around through the links in your site?

[tibiritabara]

Hi folks,

It can be an interest article about websites winner wit Panda 4.1

[screamingfrog.co.uk...]

cheers

[saravanavels]

I haven't seen any changes in my site ranking as well as competitor site rankings, is that panda update rolled out in India based websites?

[Sand]

Bottom line, if you have any page Google doesn't send traffic to, it's a sign that they don't respect it

I get what you're saying, but I also think that this is dangerous advice. I've had some articles on topics that are so competitive, it can take many months (or even a year or more) before they start to rank on page 1.

I agree that traffic to a particular page is something you should take into consideration, but you could also be shooting your future self in the foot by just noindexing everything that isn't getting traffic yet.

[mrengine]

So it's Monday morning, and I just checked the stats of my site and the ranks of those that we supply product to. Nothing has really changed. Still a massive big brand bias.

Pierre Far of Google said:

Depending on the locale, around 3-5% of queries are affected.

I see no changes outside of what I would consider normal flux! Normally an update that impacts 1% of the search results shows some significant changes, but this panda shows no signs of being introduced into our industry. A 3-5% change in queries should "rock the digital world," but I see nothing! Or is it that every small business we supply in our downstream is a spammer and held back by penguin to which panda will do absolutely nothing for?

Geez, I'm beginning to feel that maybe Pierre Far's G+ account was hacked. Google's modeling program is broken or panda 4.1 is just a complete dud. What gives Google?

Is anyone seeing major flux outside the USA?

[Broadway]

In hindsight, saying slash and burn 80% is a bit much. I think my figure was more on the order of 40%.
And someone else here suggested looking at all of each page's metrics, which is important to do.

If as a landing page, you have content that only gets a very minimal number of visitors but it's time-on-page and bounce rate (or adjusted bounce rate) stats are outstanding for your site, then it's a keeper.

But if you're keeping pages with mediocre to poor stats, just because this is the only place on the web the very few people who are looking for this info can find it, why?
You're willing to provide information for the few, at the expense of penalizing the rankings of the rest of your website's content?

For me, the goal was to get out from under Panda and then rebuild.

Look at the very low number of visitors end of your landing pages data.
Then ask yourself, what's so important about these pages that I'm willing to suffer with Panda?

It's not that the pages don't necessarily have value, or that Google's interpretation of them is right or wrong.
The issue is that these are a group of pages that are likely holding you down.

Imagine and compare the sum value of each of the metrics of your site with and without these pages included.
If you were Google, and you were looking for sites that would make the visitors you sent there happy (low bounce, high time on page/high dwell time),
which form of your site would you be more likely to send visitors to?

[EditorialGuy]

It's not that the pages don't necessarily have value, or that Google's interpretation of them is right or wrong.
The issue is that these are a group of pages that are likely holding you down.

I'm not so sure. We have many, many pages on older or more obscure topics that get only a few page views a day (or, in some cases, per week) but if the pages are valuable to some people some of the time, they're worth keeping. I know that, any librarian knows that, and--based on our gains from Panda 4.0--I suspect that Google has figured that out, too.

[samwest]

@mrengine -

A 3-5% change in queries should "rock the digital world," but I see nothing!

I wish I were you. I got "fire walled and flushed". Ever been to a water park? [youtube.com ]

@Broadway - I'm removing the obvious garbage and then checking the metrics on each suspect page. I copy the title into G and Bing and if it's on the first page, it stays, otherwise, if it's not and it's irrelevant, it goes. If it ranks and reads poorly, it is revised.

The landing page data is very telling and very useful. I waited 60 days under the new CMS to start my evaluation. Doing it slow and not all at once to be sure.

@saffron -

I'm not culling them because of Google.

Check Bing, if it's on page one, and it's rare, it should be there...if not dump it. I know it's hard.

I think of it like this. If you have a 12oz container of saturated sugar water and dump it into a 55 gallon drum of fresh water, you will likely never be able to detect the sweetness.

My concept may be flawed and not according to the book of Google...but there is no book of Google, so we have to fall back on common sense....lol (that's kinda laughable ain't it?)

[aok88]

@mrengine
I agree, I have not seen 1 iota of a change in the sites I follow, as if no Panda or any other algo change happened yet. This week's visitors and sales are exactly like last week's and the week before, etc. Yet Searchmetrics already has a list of Panda 4.1 'winners and losers'. Is there any chance at all that big changes are about to happen this week, or is this thing done?

And why did MC say they won't be announcing any more Panda's, then they went ahead and announced 4 and 4.1?

Does this mean they will start announcing them again and there weren't any others between 4 and 4.1? Because I thought Panda was now 'baked' into the algo.

[rish3]

I'm seeing relatively big swings this morning...from position 13 to 8, 4 to 11, etc. This looks to be kind of an odd rollout that may not be done for a while.

[mrengine]

@samwest
I'm sorry that your site is not doing well. This seems to be a common problem these days with those of us that run smaller sites. If nothing else, take comfort in knowing you are not alone! With any luck, we will see some changes roll out that support what Pierre Far said:

a greater diversity of high-quality small- and medium-sized sites ranking higher, which is nice.

@aok88
I am seeing other sites crop up with their winner and loser lists too as if the update is over. It's amazing that I can't even see any movement at all. A 3-5% impact on queries should be huge, but it has amounted to nothing thus far.

@rish3
What country are you searching from?

[rish3]

@rish3
What country are you searching from?

US, ecommerce, b2b.

[samwest]

@mrengine - thanks, I know and I sincerely sympathize with everyone else out there who has put their heart and soul into their sites, especially those at it for the entire life of the internet as we know it. It's a real gut punch.

The way I see it, the only way I can go now is up. :)

[RedBar]

Is anyone seeing major flux outside the USA?

Yep, I'm in the UK but with sites operating in several countries and continents, my major flux started early my Thursday 25th through until my late evening Sunday 28th and some sites have still not settled down yet.

Checking their rankings and they seemed fine however traffic was down for some sites at 80%, bizarre.

[mrengine]

@rish3
I'm the same B2B (with some minor retail), ecommerce in the USA. Much of my success is dependent on those I supply, and they have not moved anywhere in the serps.

@samwest
I like your positivity. Wish I had more of that myself to get me through the tougher times.

[seoskunk]

@samwest I am in the same boat as you, the only way is up......or too quit

I was actively updating a site with original content, unfortunately I don't seem to have done it in time and now half the pages are missing from the serps. I can only hope they return when the rollout is complete otherwise I need to wait for another update.

There was a question earlier in the thread about how frequently Panda is run. I thought it was a good point. Do they only announce when they change Panda ie 4.0 to 4.1 but run the algo frequently or does the algo only run when its changed. I am a bit confused by this.

[Clay_More]

I was under the impression Panda was part of the main algorithm since sometime in 2013. Perhaps it is, which might explain a rolling update as the index is rebuilt.

[searchenginewatch.com...]

[andreiut]

so, is this panda update done? :-) i see no traffic change for my site.

[Zivush]

Since Panda 4.1, my site gets ~ 35% more visits.
Meantime results: After checking very closely the traffic in GA and G-WMT, I can tell that most of the gains were on low to middle traffic competing pages.
The main pages, those that already saw/see high Google visits haven't changed ranking position that much.
There were some exceptional here and there but that's it for now.

[Broadway]

>>if the pages are valuable to some people some of the time, they're worth keeping.<<

That's what prev/next or combining pages and using 301 redirects are all about.
They're ways of keeping content but improving page metrics.


>>and--based on our gains from Panda 4.0--I suspect that Google has figured that out, too.<<

That's called sitting on the edge of an algorithm.
This time you're in, next tweak you may be out.
I want to be as far away from the edge as possible.
If it means repackaging my site so it looks stronger to Google, that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.