Google Updates and SERP Changes - September 2014

[Martin Ice Web]

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System: The following 8 messages were cut out of thread at: http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4694139.htm [webmasterworld.com] by goodroi - 3:07 pm on Sep 2, 2014 (utc -5)

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Hopefully Google is getting this thing tweaked.

as i see today, they didn´t get it right. Very low and nonconverting traffic.
+ domaincrowding
+ not compelling sites are on page #1
+ Content is NOT king
+ search for bananas and get apples


On saturday a friend asked me to look into his niche and all the ranking sites are like
- keyword town
up to page two
I thought this would be considered as spam? There was not one local Business, there was not one realy -> compelling <- site.

[fastdev]

after 4 months I see SERP position improvment today

[philgames]

Im seeing changes.. not improvements if anything things have gotten worse.. I think that it is a link update.

In all honesty and im not just saying this but I am using bing to search now. As google results are so predicable and garbage that it is pointless

[xelaetaks]

I swear, when I saw google's doodle for autumn this morning I though it was a penguin walking through the woods killing trees... might be time to take some time off.

I thought the same thing too when I saw that in the morning.

It seems like Google could be on the verge of updating Penguib regardless. I think the annoversary of the last update is next month and on Google Webmaster hangouts John Muller has been answering questions about Penguin lately.

Regardless, I guess it will get updated when they decide or have planned to go through with it.

[Wilburforce]

I think that it is a link update

Why, specifically, a link update?

There is certainly something going on: the page description issue I mentioned previously looks pretty endemic in my sector at the moment. It isn't just me: on one search I just checked (referred query showing up in my server log) none of the results uses the page's own description alone, although in several - including mine - the self-description is supplemented with additional page snippets.

Paradoxically, while whatever happened at the weekend has caused some loss of position for my site, both referred and converting traffic have increased marginally.

Of course, the loss of position is in general (proxied google.com) searches, and it is altogether possible that the picture is different for localised or personalised searches. All the same, a couple of Google-referred phone enquiries have been from elsewhere in the UK, so for me it looks like an improvement in referral accuracy/relevance.

This is supported by WMT: Impressions down 9%, no change (0%) in Clicks, so CTR has improved proportionately.

[superclown2]

Quite a shakeup today here for my niches in the UK. Sites which have been made responsive have generally fallen. Keyword focussing has deteriorated and there is a hint that EMDs have been penalised. Poor SERPs have become even poorer.

[samwest]

After a very slight recovery and less than a handful of sales yesterday, looks like I get a few more shovels full of dirt thrown on my grave today.

Google Analytics at zero all morning so far.

Thanks Larry.

[toidi]

In Google's enviroment, links are contact. They want us to list the sort of contact which is, in EG's metaphor, infected. 

Or possibly
[webmasterworld.com...]

[Wilburforce]

@toidi

The changes in ranking discussed in that thread predate the disavow tool, which would not, I think, count as "rank-manipulation" as set out in the patent.

[patft.uspto.gov ]

Certainly, if new backlinks (spammy or otherwise) or other on-site changes triggered the algorithm, and a resulting change in rank was shortly followed by the removal of a lot of links (or changes in site content or structure), that might cause long-term repercussions for the affected site.

Using the disavow tool is almost an opposite reaction: it is saying to Google: "if these links caused my site's change in position, please note they had nothing to do with me". It is not, in any sense, an attempt at manipulation.

I don't think, either, that the patent acts as a "trap" by causing random ranking changes in an attempt to make site owners do something stupid. The main point int the patent (paragraph 1) is:

detecting, by the processor, a change in one or more ranking factors associated with the document during a transition period

It is the change in ranking factors that is the key here: any change in ranking factors could trigger an unpredicatble change in ranking, and any further change during a subsequent period may be interpreted as proof that the changes are an attempt at manipulation.

In that sense you are right not to react to sudden changes in position with sudden changes in backlinks, structure or content, but disavowal is not - so could not be interpreted as - a change in any of those factors.

[Sand]

Looks to me like something is happening this morning on my Panda impacted site. Since 9:00 EST, I've been seeing hourly gains of 20-25% as compared to the previous 4 trailing Wednesdays.

[getcooking]

Since 9:00 EST

Yep, I just popped in here to see if anyone else was seeing this same thing (I also have a Panda-hit site that has started to show slow recovery since Panda 4).

The past several days have been majorly up and down for my site. Lots of ranking changes and a few of our bigger keywords dropped by a position or two. But now things are on the move again (in a positive way).

[Sand]

@getcooking

That's interesting. I've seen the exact same thing. Hit by Panda 4, and have seen small signs of recovery pretty much week over week ever since. But never a lift as big as this morning so far.

[getcooking]

Hit by Panda 4, and have seen small signs of recovery pretty much week over week ever since.

We were hit by Panda 1 in Feb 2011 and every update after that until August 2013 when I was able to at least stop the losses (didn't gain anything though). We first started seeing signs of recovery from Panda 4 in May. The site has had little temporary recoveries every update since. Sort of a two steps forward, one step backward kind of effect. The only time we didn't take a step back was with the update last month so I was hopeful we were maybe out of the more gray area finally since we also moved up a bit with the Sept 5 update (the site "repairs" aren't fully completed yet). But with the ups and downs this past week I assumed it was our usual step backwards.

Definitely watching keenly to see what happens with our rankings the rest of the week. I've been working hard to get us above whatever threshold Google has in place for my site so our recovery is more steady. The ups and downs the past 3 1/2 years have been stressful to say the least.

[quarta77]

mobile is gaining ground. But Desktop is still ruling for me.

[EditorialGuy]

Hit by Panda 4, and have seen small signs of recovery pretty much week over week ever since.

Our main site got a big boost from Panda 4.0 (late May) and saw further gains in the weeks that followed, but traffic has been remarkably steady ever since.

mobile is gaining ground. But Desktop is still ruling for me.

Same here, even on our newer (and smaller) "mobile first" responsive site.

[Wilburforce]

mobile is gaining ground. But Desktop is still ruling for me.

Business type is probably a pretty strong factor. A lot of B2B services are probably going to be dominated by Desktop traffic for some time to come, while e.g. mobile apps have probably long-since crossed the Rubicon.

My guess is that - whichever side of that hill your sector is in - having a mobile-friendly site will at worst do no harm at all to your Google ranking.

[fathom]

Martin_Ice_Web wrote: my niche full of sites that uses the same CSV file from the manufacturer. Same title, same description, same Pictures even the Navigation is the same. Out of 20 results 18 are the same only different Domains. What a mess.

The problem isn't that as make as how do you truly distinguish any site about widgets?

All eCommerce sites have the same issue... Google isn't ranking stuff based on the internal "PRODUCT" pages.

It's ranking stuff based on what isn't in catalog.

Obviously any domain can manipulate results with links thus "sites that uses the same CSV file from the manufacturer. Same title, same description, same Pictures even the Navigation is the same. Out of 20 results 18 are the same only different Domains"... most of that is immaterial to your observations. Even if you uniquely made your own content (text, title, same description, and the navigation) that is still "SPUN" from the same focuses of selling widgets.

...and the pictures add zero value - Googlebot is blind to imagery.

Thus, in the future, at some point they are devalued for the links... if that is why they rank well.

If you have a better editorial blog you will beat 'all the above'.

[samwest]

It's ranking stuff based on what isn't in catalog.

A catalog? if so, how does the catalog for blue widgets get so polluted by red widgets or just the 800 lb brand name gorillas that have domain crowded almost every search page?

The "catalog" we dominated very specifically on topic for over a decade is now domain crowded with Hzz, Pntrst and one or two other giants.

None of the branded pages are relevant to the query and cover an amazing longtail, plus semantic search, and boy do they have ads!
IMHO, 10 ads on any page is a bad user experience.

If it's a catalog it's beyond anything that makes sense...other than money.

[JesterMagic]

I have noticed some turmoil as well in my niche. I was hit hard in April of 2012 by Penguin and it has been a slow and steady loss until Panda 4 last May where I gained about half of my lost traffic back. Traffic was steadily improving until the beginning of August. In August I lost about 5% of traffic and now this week it looks like I have lost about another 5%. I hope this is not a back slip as I have been working hard to keep things fresh and current.

In my niche I am seeing the return of those large sites that have a little bit of info on everything. I am also seeing a bit more of domain clustering (especially with Amazon's app store).

[samwest]

Question, if we are all slipping, who is taking up the slack? Hmmmm?

[fathom]

It's ranking stuff based on what isn't in catalog.

A catalog? if so, how does the catalog for blue widgets get so polluted by red widgets or just the 800 lb brand name gorillas that have domain crowded almost every search page?

The "catalog" we dominated very specifically on topic for over a decade is now domain crowded with Hzz, Pntrst and one or two other giants.

None of the branded pages are relevant to the query and cover an amazing longtail, plus semantic search, and boy do they have ads!
IMHO, 10 ads on any page is a bad user experience.

If it's a catalog it's beyond anything that makes sense...other than money.

Your response implied one thing:

Domain crowding doesn't 'just happen' without some form of link scheme behind it so you agreed with me, and then

RE:

Question, if we are all slipping, who is taking up the slack? Hmmmm?

Oh wait... you changed your mind.

Now all the domain crowder's aren't actually doing any crowding because Google stole all the customers.

Or did we just have a brain fart.

[getcooking]

if we are all slipping

Not everyone is slipping. My site has had regular gains since Panda 4.

[JesterMagic]

The one's gaining in my niche are the large info sites like wikihow and about along with one guy who has spammed the serps and created about 30 sites in my niche that all say the same thing (but slightly different).

[fathom]

The one's gaining in my niche are the large info sites like wikihow and about along with one guy who has spammed the serps and created about 30 sites in my niche that all say the same thing (but slightly different).

Report them... thousands of websites get Manual Reviewed every day... all "only by being reported".

If as you say, they are gaming the system the Webspam Team will act but they can't without you as they generally don't manually crawl their own massive data pool.

[netmeg]

None of my sites are slipping. The one site I suspect was Panda'd for 18mos came back big with Panda 4, and the others have been moving up all along.

[Sand]

We were hit by Panda 1 in Feb 2011 and every update after that until August 2013 when I was able to at least stop the losses (didn't gain anything though). We first started seeing signs of recovery from Panda 4 in May. The site has had little temporary recoveries every update since. Sort of a two steps forward, one step backward kind of effect. The only time we didn't take a step back was with the update last month so I was hopeful we were maybe out of the more gray area finally since we also moved up a bit with the Sept 5 update (the site "repairs" aren't fully completed yet). But with the ups and downs this past week I assumed it was our usual step backwards.

Definitely watching keenly to see what happens with our rankings the rest of the week. I've been working hard to get us above whatever threshold Google has in place for my site so our recovery is more steady. The ups and downs the past 3 1/2 years have been stressful to say the least.

@getcooking

Kind of a similar story here.

My site was first hit in spring of 2012. Since then, traffic has been inconsistent to say the least. Some updates have moved me up WAY forwards, others have moved me WAY backwards.

But as of today, my niche site hit 8k Google referrals, compared to 5k a week ago. So I'll take it for the time being, but trust that nothing will stick and I may very well be back to 2k next month.

Regardless, it feels good to have some nice results for a change.

[Zivush]

if we are all slipping

Not everyone is slipping. My site has had regular gains since Panda 4.

Same here. Google traffic to my site was more than doubled since Panda 4. It went from 25K sessions per day to 57K.

Actually, I was waiting for more messages from webmasters about the last update (September 19) and how it affected their sites.

[Wilburforce]

Google traffic to my site was more than doubled since Panda 4.

+1.

Slight decline since 6 September, however, and whatever is going on currently is harder to evaluate.

[Martin Ice Web]

If you have a better editorial blog you will beat 'all the above'.

@fathom, if this wasn´t this sad i would laugh. But the sites outranking us do not have any Editorial Blogs, just plain 1:1 copy with different layout.
We do have custom widgets ( not in your said catalog ! ), they are unique in germany( europe ), we do have "how to" Editorials for widgets that Needs help to be installed. We do have cross linking beween helpfull widgets ( e.g. for Installation you might need this widget too .. / i think that was something of the new Google policy )
We have two differences to all the flat site above us:
WE ARE RELEVANT AND COMPELLING! while having additional Information.

Panda is blind to good relevant sites but likes scraped and copied content.

[Shaddows]

We've sailed through all the Pandas, although Panda 4 made our growth trajectory a little shallower (from 30s to 20s in percentage terms)

The update of the 19th is the single biggest event in our history (13 years trading). Year to date, Revenue growth was in the high 20s. Since the 19th, its high 70s.

And no, the base numbers are not so trivial as to make percentage rates meaningless.

[fathom]

If you have a better editorial blog you will beat 'all the above

'.

@fathom, if this wasn´t this sad i would laugh. But the sites outranking us do not have any Editorial Blogs, just plain 1:1 copy with different layout.
We do have custom widgets ( not in your said catalog ! ), they are unique in germany( europe ), we do have "how to" Editorials for widgets that Needs help to be installed. We do have cross linking beween helpfull widgets ( e.g. for Installation you might need this widget too .. / i think that was something of the new Google policy )
We have two differences to all the flat site above us:
WE ARE RELEVANT AND COMPELLING! while having additional Information.

Panda is blind to good relevant sites but likes scraped and copied content

You aren't connecting the dots.

Relevant & compelling means to me (and PANDA) your blog is vastly superior in natural links.

If true, then the only thing you need to do is do paid links in your blog to the catalog.

Quality to PANDA is link juice... Relevant & Compelling is link juice!

The information is meaningless without the link juice and a relevant path to the pages you want to rank.