Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
I launched in may 2007 a site that have good SERPS for some KWs and now bad SERPS for strong KWs (position 280 for widgetA and position 80 for widget). In these 2 years the site had better SERPS for those KWs, making like a YOYO but with big intervals. For example one month widegtA climb to position 100 and 3 weeks after down to the position 280. For widgetB climbs to position 18 and down again 3 weeks to the position 50 or 80 (oscila).
I have backlinks from other widget sites (of third party), reciprocal links also from widget sites and also general link directories. I have between 150 or 250 links (with different anchor text) from to 2 general directories(are mine in different IPs) and I also had links for widget site in the same class C (I deleted the backlinks a month ago)
Do you think that my site y penalize or filter by Google? If I deleted the links from my 2 directories will help?
Regards
Unless you know of a way that your sites are going against Google's guidelines, it sounds like you might be missing some key element to help your rankings. Of course, the site's backlink profile is key. Other than that, I'd say study other discussions here, especially those in the Hot Topics area [webmasterworld.com], which is always pinned to the top of this forum's index page.
Also, dig into those sites that are first page for your target keywords - especially analyze their backlinks. You may be targeting keywords that are too competitive for your site's current assets. If that's so, you should probably make a plan for further development - and base it on whatever Google traffic you are currently getting.
So as Google constantly tweak the algo, the links have been counted or counted less or not at all.
When you see these changes in your ranking if you look at the top ten sites and the ten sites on the same page as you, then you can see if it is two different indexes.
If you want stable rankings then look at the top ten sites for the terms you want and analyse their links. That should give you plenty of ideas for developing a strategy to get a *varied* link profile of your own. Directories (especially general directories) are increasingly not enough to create rankings for search terms.
I will read the Hot Topics.
I must tell you, that the site perform well for KWs that are not competitive or less competitive, but the widget kws that I told you, are very very competitive.
Thanks
I'm seeing rankings vary just like you mention but on a weekly schedule, I now know it like clockwork but it took me forever just to realize it was because of things out of my control. With acceptance comes peace, everyones rankings fluctuate to some degree.
(of third party)
I am gonna say something here ya'll most likely think I am a mad man but here goes.
I have a suspicion, conspiracy theory, feeling call it what ya want but I really feel Google has an automated system that sends 3 way link schemes to see if a site will take a part in this Google TOS violation.
OK I can hear the moans and groans now, rolling of eyes, this guy is nuts theory but I am getting them pretty much eveyday with very large percentage of them are coming from google gmail accounts. yea I know millions of folks have gmail accounts so do Google employees.
3 ways done correctly are pretty much impossible to detect and do work to increase PR and Serp positions this is a no brainer.
How does Google figure out who is willing to participate? My gut feeling by joining in and go fishing. Throw the bait to see who takes the hook.
You say yea right ok well we all know they use humans to review sites and their input has a large impact on your ranking positions (IMO) these workers have tools that can detect wierd linking patterns so all they need to do is add the sites email address into their automated 3 way linking email and see who takes the bait.
Or just add any reviewed site in the querry.
Yea I know out there but I wonder if asked how many of these sites that have been hit lately have or do 3 way linking?
Be an intresting question to ask?
Well there are lots of ways that Google could try to secretly "entrap" site owners into violating its TOS.
Google employees are not smart enough to pull it off ... or to have even thought of it. Their brains are wired to work out how to get a computer to do things.
Security companies are smart enough to hire hackers to help them. Google has never hired black hats as far as I'm aware.
Well there are lots of ways that Google could try to secretly "entrap" site owners into violating its TOS.
Google employees are not smart enough to pull it off...
There's an opinion held by many in the SEO community that link buying and selling is one area where Google runs some "covert ops". I cannot confirm or deny - but I do think Google has employees focused on all kinds of areas. If they need a certain kind of intelligence, someone in the company will be tasked with getting it - no, not the search engineers, but someone. It's a big place.
... hang on, my tin foil hat needs re-inforceing ...
I will keep my eyes to analyze which of them doesn't change of change less
In the UK the results are often dominated by spam and I regularly see sites with crap link profiles ranking above those with what I would consider quality, diverse and natural profiles. Google doesn't always seem to be able to practice what it preaches just yet but you can bet they are working on it.
Bottom line, the more link profiles you crunch through the more ideas you should come up with.
I will keep you update of the results
Thanks
If anyone sees a major drop in rankings that they can't understand - looking for a server hack [webmasterworld.com] should be high on the checklist.
Regards
In either case, I'll bet there are (or were) backlinks pointing to those pages from other websites in the spammer's network.
If you want I can send you a PM with more info
Regards
My main point is that this hacker had very thorough access to your server and did some devious things. Make sure your hosting service cleans very throughly and plugs up the access leak, or this hacker will be back (or even another one.)
Regards
I will keep updates
There's an opinion held by many in the SEO community that link buying and selling is one area where Google runs some "covert ops".
Bingo! Something I am completely convinced is happening.
I have no idea how they caught one of my sites, we only purchased 3 links and it was all done in complete confidentiality. But somehow Google found out and as soon as I had the links deleted the site was back to its high ranking. I have no idea how Google figured it out, but they did. They must have had somebody on the inside.
...no idea how Google figured it out, but they did.
Most sites that sell links don't sell just to you. They could also sell to a Google undercover site that's a buyer, or they could sell to a site that's bought from a Google undercover site that's a seller... etc etc.
Google could also just look at its own serps to see who's selling and foolish enough to say so publicly. It really doesn't take much to infiltrate a whole network.
The argument goes on, we can pay for a radio, TV or print media Ad but can't pay for a link advertising the site online, that's wrong you might say, but wrong also if that link is not meant only for branding or selling but for manipulating the sellers importance, misleading the searcher, misrepresenting how trusted is the seller. In the offline world, worth, importance and credibility are built and gained by tangible reputation, concerned parties are approved and certified by authoritative bodies, gained wide acclaims, known to be a pillar of the community or are part of an important macro-economic make-up of a whole country...
The online world is different, at least for now, take two bloggers, one is Joe Fastbucker and the other is Stephen hawking, both write about Astro-physics, Stephen is not that good when it comes to Black Hat SEO, but damn good at Black Holes (now where did I get that from), Joe is an amateur Astronomer (or pretends to be by copying and pasting, scrapping etc), but certainly not an amateur Black Hatter. If left unchecked, you'll find many of Joe's pages outranking Stephen's, consequently, you'll find yourself reading about how to make big bucks instead of big bangs related theories, or worse still, blue ray DVDs instead of gamma ray spectrums, while Stephen's pages are in G*'s index black hole. Now G*'s PR and trustrank amongst other algo calculations and human interventions are the deciders.
The test is simple, when offline, send a paper to a scientific journal and see if you get published (a.k.a getting a back link in the online world), the same to an equivalent online site applies, G* makes sure you deserve that link, the link is to an on topic site and most importantly you have high authority on what the published material is about.
I hear you say, surely realistically Joe's pages can't outrank Stephen's now, and I say you're correct and that's because G* has a good bunch of engineers, scientists and employees who insure that does not happen, one of the strict rules is clamping down on deliberate off topic and unqualified backlinks....
I have a suspicion, conspiracy theory, feeling call it what ya want but I really feel Google has an automated system that sends 3 way link schemes to see if a site will take a part in this Google TOS violation.
I was and am still involved in many sites, I found a correlation between sending a recon request and the number of requests for purchasing links from Y! and Gmail email addresses on more than three occasions. Each time I made a request (at least three occasions), within a week to 10 days I received more requests than usual for selling links to completely unrelated sites and topics, when at that time gone for weeks and never received any. It actually crossed my mind and luckily I don't anyway, so deliberately replied and said we don't do such a thing and how dare they ask us to take part in black hat methods...normally I just ignore them, and guess what, all but one of the recons were successful about a month after my reply.
The troubled sites never had anything wrong, they just partnered (cross promoted) with like minded on topic BUT newly launched conferences. So, I take it, the only thing they were (if it was them) suspicious of was those newly posted links and banners to new unknown sites. Unknown they had to be, many conferences are seasonal and only happen once a year. They get high traffic for a couple of months or so and some just close the site and on with a different site themed with the name of the event's keywords for the next conference and with a different subtopic. Now, when that happened to me, it was while back close to a year or more.
Pity I did not do a DNS trace on those emails just to have an idea where the IP blocks were geo based, if anywhere near where G* datacenters are geo located at least, seen I can't see a G* employee traveling well away from where he/she works, however, proxy methods could've been used min you!
Now, I am not the only paranoid one after a year of keeping it a secret. Despite that, I still doubt the theory!
Most sites that sell links don't sell just to you. They could also sell to a Google undercover site that's a buyer, or they could sell to a site that's bought from a Google undercover site that's a seller... etc etc.
This is exactly what I figured has happened. It was a major player in link selling and they clearly had a decent strategy in place to hide which sites they are working with. But that obviously failed.
Lesson learned, back to all white hat SEO.
I have always felt trying to do something the quick way was a good way to rise and fall.
Old saying "play with fire your going get burned" so since 1999 I have always linked in the manner intended. I link for related traffic and or providing information to a visitor on my site that can be used to make a better decision and or add value to the information/product I have content developed for.
Three ways buying links and so forth are a quick way (lazy mans way) to rank for a period of time till the bell rings.
Heck if you think Google won't get into the act you got your head in the ground. The link sellers that had the hidden code and all that well I have a strong feeling they are in another line of work.
The net is a hard hard business more so than a brick and mortor business and so many want to take the fast track and get caught in the trap.
I am certian Google has many many traps set for those that seek the fast track.
