Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
I have another question about the same site I have posted a couple of other topics about. (A site we have just taken on for SEO)
Currently, the H1 Tag on the index page reads:
<widgets> and <other widgets> retailer UK - <widgets> are <company name>
(<widgets> and <other widgets> are the core keywords we are optimising for)
This reads terribly and the second part doesn't even make any sense. This is obviously atrocious for the user.
I understand that Google is experimenting with NLP. Is there any research out there to suggest that Google is incorporating NLP into it's algorithms and will be equally turned off and penalise the site?
The site appears in position 1 for <other widgets> but is at the bottom of page 4 for <widgets> so I'm a little reluctant to start changing the H1 tag on the homepage for an experiment in case it damages the position for <other widgets>
Thanks in advance, I will keep you all updated on my findings and look forward to discussing this.
Thanks for separating your questions into different topics... it makes discussions more focused. Several comments and questions...
First, re the use of widgets as the sample targeted word. Is "widget" the same in all three spots? If it is, IMO, that's too much. It's not clear how far along Google is in natural language processing, but even before NLP, it was pretty hip to overly frequent repetition.
One of my tests is that if your language doesn't sound right when read out loud, it's probably not right for SEO.
Co-occurring phrases on a page also need to fall within a "natural" range... Too much co-occurrence and the page is considered spammy. Not enough co-occurrence and the page may not be considered relevant. For some theoretical background on co-occurrence and phrase-based indexing, take a look at this discussion....
"Phrase Based Indexing and Retrieval" - part of the Google picture?
6 patents worth
[webmasterworld.com...]
Another question... Is the <h1> heading the same as the <title> element... or are the different? Rule of thumb is that they should be similar but not necessary identical.
I ask in the context of answering your question because the title element is in fact the most single influential onpage optimizing element, more important than the heading. It's also what searchers see when they come upon your page in a serp... so a title needs to work well for the searcher. It's an invitation for the searcher to click. The <h1> heading you describe doesn't sound like it would make a good title (or a good heading).
For more background on titles, take a look at this thread. Even though it's five years old, it holds up pretty well....
Building the Perfect Page - Part II - The Basics
Developing an effective <title> element.
[webmasterworld.com...]
Thanks for taking the time for an excellent post.
<Widget> and <other widget> use "widget" as 2 completely different words. I should have laid that out a bit clearer.
The title of the page uses the first part of the H1 tag so looks like I should change this slightly.
I will have a look over the posts you suggest.
Again, thank you for a valuable post!
Fraser
<Widget> and <other widget> use "widget" as 2 completely different words. I should have laid that out a bit clearer.
I'm assuming then, that if we use "widgets" and "gizmos", instead of "widgets" and "other widgets", your h1 heading would read...
<widgets> and <gizmos> retailer UK - <widgets> are <company name>
To take this a little further, are <widgets> and <gizmos> in this case single words, or are they phrases? I ask because it's generally very hard to rank on single words... much easier to rank for two or three word searches. It's therefore often helpful to have a modifier or two in the title. [widgets retailer] or [gizmos retailer] might be useful target phrases for which the title might give you a boost, but, off the top of my head, those combinations don't sound like they'd be searched very often. [widgets uk] or [gizmos uk] might get some searches. You'd need to use a keyword tool like the Google AdWords tool external to see what is searched.
Note that we don't permit discussion of specific tools in this forum.
I agree that the second part of the heading doesn't make sense.
Re the first part...
The title of the page uses the first part of the H1 tag so looks like I should change this slightly.
This isn't what I meant. When I said "similar but not necessary identical", I didn't mean that the title and heading had to be different... I meant that they didn't always have to be exactly the same.
If you like the first part as it currently is in your title, leave it that way. I'd be cautious about changing the keywords in your title wording if you're not sure what you're doing.
That said, I'd try to get the second part of the title to the point where it makes some sense while keeping the keyword "widgets" where it is... maybe change it to "widgets from <company name>" or "widgets by <company name>". Since the client is a retailer, the use of "from" would likely make more sense.
