Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
Also many decent webmasters feel forced to stop any linking as they feel the threat of getting penalized by Google so that the previous organic linking is shrinking whilst the paid link industry is further expanding.
So what could be the benefits of an obviously malfunctioning Page Rank syatem ?
It's clear that toolbar PR can be very strange - even buggy. But internally Google still finds use for their real PR numbers as one part of the total algo.
With 100% blank sites being able to score PR of 4
PR has nothing to do with assessing content, only backlinks.
Greybar = New site not picked up by Googlebot, or manually removed
PR0 - New site noted by Googlebot or very little link love
PR >0 - If going up, something to talk about. If going down, something to moan about.
PR has nothing to do with assessing content, only backlinks.
There are sites in our portfolio that have loads of organic links. One got slashed down from 4 to zero the other one to 2. Some new sites have hardly any backlinks and rank at 3.
There is no understandable logic in this.
I get the feeling you're investing too much time worrying about the toolbar PR. What counts is how much traffic the site is receiving and the quality of the keyword phrases site visitors are using to find your site, plus how well the pages they're landing on serve your goals. That's really what matters.
Ted mentions recalculation of how links are counted. That may not necessarily be reflected in the toolbar, but it's definitely reflected in how sites are ranking and in some cases, no longer ranking. ;)
You mean the Toolbar PR system? There's a difference between Toolbar PR and PageRank.
Unless one is selling links, Toolbar PR doesn't matter. What matters is ranking, traffic, quality of that traffic in re to keywords used, etc.
Unless one is selling links, Toolbar PR doesn't matter.
Disagree. It also matters when you are selling advertising space to TBPR-obsessed people.
Or, as bragging rights to TBPR-inclined people.
But broadly, just ignore the <insert expletive> thing
[edited by: Shaddows at 9:49 am (utc) on Nov. 24, 2008]
It also matters when you are selling advertising space to TBPR-obsessed people. = Unless one is selling links...
Same thing. How is it different? We agree. TBPR obsessed people are buying links, not advertising. If TBPR is the commodity one is selling then TBPR matters. We are in agreement there.
As far as bragging rights is concerned, the only thing to brag about is how much money your site earned.
But broadly, just ignore the <insert expletive> thing...
Yah, I agree. Ignore TBPR, it doesn't matter. That's what I advised in my previous post. Unless TBPR is the commodity you're selling, TBPR doesn't really matter. What matters is the REAL PR.
<rant>
2 different issues:
1. Can you rely on TBPR as a definitive statement of PR and/or site success and ranking? No.
2. Does it matter? Of course it does.
Clients look at it. It's the only public indication of Google's view of a site's PR that you have? (GWT of course gives you an indication if you control a site - but if you dont?)
It gives you a "rough" (barometer style) indicator of how hard it will be to rank well against other sites for that keyword! Who is going to tell me its just as easy to beat 5 x PR6 sites in the top 5 posi's vs ranking against a mixed bag with low PR sites in there?
So my suggestion is to accept that TBPR is not the be all and end all, but not to boost your SEO ego by trying to suggest its an irrelevance, or cast aspersions to those who take note of it. If it was an irrelevance, we would not still be discussing it would we? If you ignore the little info that G provides you about competitors in a public forum - more fool you.
</rant>
also some of our advertisers look at this dubious PR thing that big G is adding to sites.
Even when i show them blank pages with a PR4 they still think PR is everything. At least they understand, that Google is primarily delivering confusing nonsense with such PR ranking system that has nothing to do with quality and traffic of a site.
Just wonder, how long G will stick to that messy system.
Indeed, I agree wholeheartedly with you. TBPR is a vanity at best.
pbaddock, I might just agree that 5x TBPR 5 sites would statistically be harder to beat than 5x TBPR <5. But only grudgingly.
It may look messy to people who have no understanding how it works.
[edited by: SEOPTI at 3:06 pm (utc) on Nov. 24, 2008]
Just wonder, how long G will stick to that messy system.
PageRank might not be as important in the ranking algorithm as it once was but it does permeate Google's entire system. It determines when pages first get indexed, how often they are crawled, whether they are in the main or supplemental index. It's the tiebreaker in many situations, most notably in duplicate content, and is a main signal of authority.
As G only revamped its system with the Big Daddy infrastructure in Spring 2006 I don't see the underlying importance of PageRank going away anytime soon.
As for TBPR, well, I can't really get into that debate as I don't have the toolbar installed on any machines.
It may look messy to people who have no understanding how it works.
So you might be a one who knows how to get MFA junk and blank pages up to PR 4 and above.
So who benefits the most from the current PR sytem ? Certainly not users who see blank pages with PR 4.
Who is even visiting these blank pages? Other than yourself of course.
Perhaps these pages once had good content and were sold and content has been removed. Perhaps it is a spammer. Regardless, I highly doubt these pages are ranking without any content, which reinforces the idea that TBPR really doesn't mean much other than backlinks are present and accounted for.
It determines when pages first get indexed, how often they are crawled,
You will always be better off with higher PR, than lower. However if your making any decisions whatsoever from what’s displayed on the Google tool bar your drinking the cool aid; it’s purposely distorted. Google uses Page Rank for their internal calculations, they still get some buzz and public relations cool factor out of it, but they don’t want the people that hang around here knowing what the PR is of every page out there. Why would they?
If you want to understand the PR of a page, you would be better off recording things like how often it gets crawled and cached, than looking at that tool bar.
Certainly not users who see blank pages with PR 4.
The users are, imo webmasters. Based on the way TBPR is updated plus how and when it displays green indicates that the toolbar is a way for Google to communicate with webmasters, to motivate them into complying with Google-friendly activities. If that's not the goal of gray and white bars it's certainly the effect.
Who is even visiting these blank pages? Other than yourself of course.
a big hotel website, where the content is on the .net version that has a PR of 2 and where some previous webmaster has managed to get the blank .com up to PR 4.
.com lists well .net can not be found ...
to motivate them into complying with Google-friendly activities.
yip, blank gets the 4 and regular, utterly clean content gets the 2.
Some of our fairly thin content sites with hardly any inbounds get a higher PR than content rich and much older sites with loads of inbounds.
Also some nothing but paid links directory gets a PR5 and higher since ages.
Simply wonder if things have gotten out of hand at a wider scale since only very few webmasters are willed to do any linking now as also observed by Tedster.
