Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
I have always also owned the domain myownverygreenwidgets.com (without dashes), with a 301 to the main domain. Is it now time to make myownverygreenwidgets.com the main domain, and has anyone experienced improved Google results when switching a hyphenated domain to a non-hyphenated?
So I don't.
Point being, there are many other possible reasons for the ranking, anyone of which could be contributing.
Before looking at changing domain names, be sure that you've truly exhausted all other options.
Once you're sure (or as close to as sure as possible), I wouldn't be scared to change domian names. Just make sure you aren't completely relying on SE traffic to drive sales.
And if you are, you should try to get your eggs in some other baskets.
Yes, look at what those above you are doing but, also, look at what's wrong with your site. Check the basics real hard - robots.txt, htaccess, sitemap.xml etc. Check for duplicate content on site and off site. File some DMCAs if necessary. Do a xenu and see how many of your external links are leading to 404s (might as well correct the 301s while you're repairing your links). If you've got a forum or dynamically generated pages there's even more to check. Remove anything that might look spammy (have a sister site? Remove that sitewide to the sister site/trade association site/award site/ other). Have some CSS that could look like it's positioning text off page/too small/same colour as background? Or some mega sized alt tags? Spend some time with Google webmaster tools (and others) to get a picture of how third parties see your site.
More often than not it's about the basics.
SEO 102 - Cool URIs Don't Change [w3.org]
The bigger issue is where you do business/publish. If it's only online, you can get away with hyphens--you're getting traffic from search engines, inbound links, AdWords.
Offline, too?
"Our web address is keyword1 dash keyword 2 dash . . ."
"What!?"
You're not going to pass the first impressions test.
p/g
my-own-very-green-widgets.com
and
myownverygreenwidgets.com
I very much doubt this is a domain name issue, my #1 core site of 13 years uses a hyphen, even though I own the non-hyphenated version I have always preferred to promote this one since it is more easy to read and, so far, has never suffered from any kind of penalty.
As others have questioned, what are your competitors doing that you are not?
Do you make any updates or is it completely static apart from adding links?
[edited by: FlexAjaxSEO at 7:23 pm (utc) on Jan. 3, 2008]
- John
What's the internal nav structure like? Are you using dashes there as well?This is a rather small static site (60 pages), so I have a menu / sitemap on each page except the index page, where I have only 5 links to the 5 main pages.
Yes, there are also dashes in the internal filenames. I could change these filenames to dash-free but I doubt it would improve the ranking of my index page.
marketingmagic wrote:
Is there more you could do with the site in terms of features for your visitors?I have been that path but feel that it distracts (both search engines and users) from the purpose of the site in my case. When visitors come to my site, they want to buy a green widget. They don't want to read books about widgets or about the green color. So I have about 30 original pages describing 30 different green widgets, and 30 pages of general unique information about widgets and the green color - that's enough.
HuskyPup wrote:
I very much doubt this is a domain name issue, my #1 core site of 13 years uses a hyphenYeah; I found 5 hyphenated / dashed domains among the Alexa first 500, so it can't be that bad. Also, I recently stumbled upon other sites with even more dashes and with a spammier domain name than mine and they rank extremely well for competitive searches in their niches. So the secret is elsewhere. Forget about the dashes question.
oddsod wrote:
Check for duplicate content on site and off site. File some DMCAs if necessary.Rewriting may be one of the solutions indeed. Big job.
One year ago I discovered a rubbish site that had copied entire (internal) pages of mine (links to mine included, as I keep all my links absolute). The site is outside of the USA on a foreign tld, so I don't think DMCA applies. I reported it to Google via the spam report form and that site is now nowhere to be found for my keywords (although still cached). It runs AdSense and the ads show public service ads. So I don't think its presence is an issue.
There is no evidence?
There is no and will never be any evidence. It's all based on what happens to someone and what he's willing to share.
Keywords in domain name is vital and can make the difference. And any1 can notice that by looking at SERPs. But too many hyphens make domain name long. Hence the entire URL grows longer ... and will trigger some spam filters. And I do have a lot of experience in this stuff.
And several hyphens in a domain names will make it much harder to remember for the direct visitors. Shorter names are easier to remeber.
Cheers!
[edited by: tedster at 8:48 pm (utc) on Jan. 3, 2008]
As I mentioned previously, from a branding perspective, hyphens are a nightmare. And, if you don't own both the hyphenated and non-hyphenated version, you'll have a marketing mess on your hands from day one. Not to mention potential litigation issues.
[edited by: pageoneresults at 8:50 pm (utc) on Jan. 3, 2008]
[edited by: tedster at 1:58 am (utc) on Feb. 19, 2008]
The obvious one is experts-exchange - they chose the hyphenated version because the concatenated verion of their name produces the word "sex" by accident.
This had me rolling on the floor. Worse than that, their URL without the hyphen could be parsed "expert sex change" : )
But seriously, as far as hyphenation is concerned, what counted the most for me was what the SE saw, and how they treated what they saw - and it still does. There was a time (if I recall correctly) where SE's couldn't or wouldn't extract words (especially names) out of compacted character strings.
As for the human point of view, I think a single hyphen is not too onerous, and can be of an aid to memory (especially where people/product names are concerned), but again, the SE treatment is of a larger concern for me.
However, do not forget Quadrille's Oft-Quoted 14th Law:"More than one hyphen is international shorthand for idiot webmaster; More than two hyphens is Galaxy-wide shorthand for "I'd be a spammer if only I knew how"
I'm not suggesting anything rude about you - it's just the look of the thing.
Classic. Absolute Classic.
:)
This would reduce the amound of domaining crap that goes on.
Might be a middle ground.
Grab a dictionary, a six-pack or three and a couple of friends and brainstorm.
But don't actually buy until normal sobriety has been resumed, or you may regret it :)
If that doesn't appeal, put $20 - $30 in your ebay credit card account, and get bidding. You'll be amazed! And usually no shipping charges!
If that doesn't appeal, put $20 - $30 in your ebay credit card account, and get bidding.
I'd rather not encourage domain parkers in any way possible. The day I'll have to send them money will be a dark day indeed.
What's wrong with buying a used domain on ebay? If you can pick up a 5-character domain for $20, it can't be all bad - you'd pay almost that at go-d*ddy
You know, for me who has registered domain names in 2007 for 6.99 that I thought to have been grabbed years ago, the 'but every good domain is taaakeeen' argument does not hold up. Unless in your vision the only good domains are examplewidgets.com and widget.org. Yeah. Those are taken. Not that they rank #1 on Google. Or carry any branding power. ( No, you're not gonna be trusted as the one-stop national resouce for widgets just 'cause you have the domain name ).
...
But back on track, reading the thread again two things are obvious:
- Hyphens won't hinder the ranking of a well established site
- - people raise an eyebrow for each hyphen after the first.. A domain name with 3+ hyphens suggests serious medication.
( Faces get distorted beyond surreal. Your tounge gets twisted. An ugly sight in general. )
...
Bonus content: HYFAQ - ( and some A's ):
Do SEs penalize for 2+ hyphens? No... ( and there's no .info or .biz penalty though there should be )
Is many hyphens something that any person ( inc. a Google eval. part-timer ) would find natural? No...
Is it user friendly to have more than one? No...
Do spammasters care about your domain format? No...
Do the ever-wary ( weary ) webmasters link to you? No...*
Should you change a hyper-hyphenated domain name if it's performing well? Uh, heck no...
Should you whine about domain names being taken? No...
Should you register the hyphenated version of a domain that's already in use by others? Hah... NO.**
Should you (have) register(ed) both versions? Absolutely...
Do you believe that 301 redirecting your established hyphenated site to a new, non-hyphenated domain will elevate you above #15? Well... if you did, visit a few 'how many years does it take to get back on track after a domain name change' threads.
* unless your site is squeaky clean and too good to miss a link exchange with *smirk*
**: unless of course if you WANT to be mistaken for them.
... what was the question again?
why-don't-you-speak-for-yourself-there-?-I-typed-all-this-and-still-loved-it.
actually I agree. Forget google as an algo. Think of users and Google employees who might manually review. Why start the review /site experience with a strike against you?
Actually the name never occured to me for three months while I researched a sector of the web to find a way of doing it better in that sector. As I was looking up possible names I almost didn't type it in, I was that sure it would be gone.
I had just assumed all the good domains were spoken for and am now the proud owner of a com/ net/ org trio, bought at regular market prices.
No More WWW
I'm through with it and good riddance!
[webmasterworld.com...]
Aren't you just tired of saying dub-dub-dub? And then, dub-dub-dub-dot-example-example-example.com/keyword-keyword-keyword/keyword-keyword/keyword/keyword.htm?
Whew! Try fitting that in a print ad. Or, try fitting just the domain on a business card. :)
kill the wwwI don't like the www, but I put up with it. I am replying in the thread you quoted.
