Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
Three days after adding it I've dropped down several places across many of my top ranking keywords. For some of them we have been No. 1-3 for over two years! Any thoughts on other factors that might have influenced it?
gives you a minus in the algorithm, *for that page*.
The page I added the adsense search box to is quite internal and does not rank. It is my main page that ranks and it is that page that has dropped in ranking.
I know there is a PR update on at the moment but I thought Toolbar updates didn't affect ranking, only when they update the pagerank on their own systems?
I do wonder - and that's all I guess I can do - if between the two spiders there is some slightly different handling of the retrieved url's content.
Regarding Ad-Sense and losing placements on G.
We were hit with the G 950 penalty on 4-25. I posted a few observations regarding Ad-Sense and 950 on that tread:
[webmasterworld.com...]
For what ever its worth, you might want to read that post and follow any comments made.
[edited by: tedster at 5:02 pm (utc) on April 29, 2007]
[edit reason] link fix [/edit]
Do you really think that the presence/absence of AdSense is a scoring factor incorporated in Googles algos?
Please don't underestimate the intelligence of Google's engineers :-)
Please don't underestimate the intelligence of Google's engineers :-)
Companies tend to be run by the boys and girls with suits .. and they tend to do funny things based on red and black numbers and not on logic ... well logic with red and black numbers as axioms.
I really doubt they would be as silly to actually declare their own product as negative.
Maybe they inspect adsense pages more closely, if it's worth bothering income wise.
[edited by: mattg3 at 9:41 am (utc) on April 29, 2007]
Three days after adding it [Adsense] I've dropped down several places across many of my top ranking keywords. For some of them we have been No. 1-3 for over two years! Any thoughts on other factors that might have influenced it?
Remove the ads and let us know if you bounce back.
(SERPs have been shifting lately, so it complicates analysis. Better to choose a time in the month after the dust has settled.)
p/g
But Adsense code is javascript and dont SE ignore it? and then how it would affect rankings?
This page has adsense on it which media partners bot would know then they have a maybe closer more intense look at it, for TOS violations and so on. Doesn't mean they favour it or disfavour it, but they might put more resources in. That way they could claim it doesn't affect it directly. It's about concentrating their resources where it matters for their income.
Guess of course.
If its a good site, with decent page views and a low bounce rate. You might find a push up in the serps. If its the opposite, then you might experience a fall in the serps.
When you add adsense, you are letting google know everything about your traffic. Even your MSN and Yahoo traffic that Google did not see before you place adsense on the site.
I will also say this, adsense pages tend to get cached quicker than non adsense pages. This is do to the bot.
Over time I've read quite a number of "Dropped in G" posts from what were previously informational sites that had added AS, and I suspect the certain linkage "leeway" G gives informational sites disappears when they turn commercial.
Over time I've read quite a number of "Dropped in G" posts from what were previously informational sites that had added AS, and I suspect the certain linkage "leeway" G gives informational sites disappears when they turn commercial.
Most "informational" sites are "commercial," if by "commercial" you mean for-profit editorial sites like THE NEW YORKER, THE WASHINGTON POST, THE GUARDIAN, etc. that any rational search engineer would consider to be of high value to users. And based on my own experience as the publisher of an editorial Web site, I'd have to say that the presence of ads hasn't had any effect on rankings.
On the other hand, it wouldn't be unreasonable for Google to take certain advertising-related factors into account when gauging the quality of a site. Just the other day, I got a link submission from a travel site that had three AdSense units surrounding the modest quantity of editorial content in every page. I was unimpressed, and if I'd been a Google search engineer, I probably would have reacted with the same skepticism.
A search engine's QC algorithm could include something like:
"IF there are three AdSense units on a page, AND the site is brand-new, AND there are few or no inbound links from authority sites or sites with a high 'trustrank,' THEN the site probably isn't as good as an otherwise equal site that doesn't have three AdSense units on every page."
Of course, over time, the site's ranking might go up if (for example) it received inbound links from trusted and authoritative sites that would help to override the search engine's "skepticism factor."
As I have mentioned in other threads I definitely think there are conflicts between bots in various Google programs that can send your rankings topsy turvy. This doesn’t seem like such a case though. To small a variance to deem abnormal if not flux or a ranking change. Don’t assume though dropping any Google program will return your site or page to the previous positions. The crawl patterns change and one program may not realize you dropped the other program. Bottom line is I don't think the Adsense page is having any measurable effect.
I suspect the certain linkage "leeway" G gives informational sites disappears when they turn commercial.
You may have something there, glengara. A while back Matt Cutts mentioned that Google does some special handling to make sure that the "mom and pop" doesn't get buried by the big boys.
I've always been curious about the details behind that comment, although from some of the personal sites my friends run, I would say I can see this effect. So, as a conjecture, it could be possible that some of this special handling gets dampened when a site publishes Adsense.
When you added AdSense you changed your page. Change causes change. Part of your ranking may have been based on your page stability.
Or it could be mere coincidence. Some of my pages that I track go up and down regularly by a few slots, depending on what Google may be favoring at the moment. (The OP mentioned a drop in rank of "several places," which isn't much when you look at the big picture.)
Because this is an exceedingly uncommon occurrence, it is safe to say there is no connection whatsoever.
Three days after adding it...
One thing that's been overlooked in this discussion is that it takes more than three days for a change to existing content/pages to be reflected in the SERPs. It typically takes between a week to ten days to see it reflected in the SERPs.
Considering that it doesn't happen for the overwhelming majority, plus the event occurred three days after adding the code, imo it's a coincidence.
An "informational" site breaking the linkage guidelines could well be viewed fairly benevolently since there's little discernable motive, add AS to that mix though and you now have the "motive"....
Do you really think that the presence/absence of AdSense is a scoring factor incorporated in Googles algos? Please don't underestimate the intelligence of Google's engineers :-)
I think it would be an intelligent move. Whether information or commercial I had always thought that adding Adsense to your pages was "lowering your standards" which is why I had never done such until now. It is a way to make money from a site that otherwise wouldn't because it doesn't have enough "value" for other more profitable advertising streams like we have on every other page of the site. Adsense is the biggest source of spam on Google, it would be "unintelligent" to NOT be examining how to integrate it into the algorithm.
When you added AdSense you changed your page. Change causes change. Part of your ranking may have been based on your page stability.
Never heard of "page stability". What is it? And, (as I've already said), the adsense code was only added to a single internal page. Yet the main page, which is what ranks at the top, is the one that has dropped since adding the code. We haven't had this sort of drop for two years and the site has been ranked on the first page for four years.
It [AdSense] is a way to make money from a site that otherwise wouldn't because it doesn't have enough "value" for other more profitable advertising streams like we have on every other page of the site.
For a quality site with good traffic and established revenue streams, the real strength of AdSense is its ability to generate additional revenue (via contextual ads) from pages that already generate revenues from conventional ads. That's why you'll find AdSense ads on sites like newyorktimes.com and washingtonpost.com, which certainly aren't lacking in quality by any objective standard.
The notion that AdSense ads per se would result in lower rankings is illogical, because:
1) Too many excellent sites run AdSense ads, which means Google Search would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater if it downranked sites for having AdSense ads; and...
2) Any study of Google's SERPs will show a mixture of high-ranking pages with and without AdSense ads.
I'll buy Martinibuster's "coincidence" explanation, which is both rational and reasonable.
it would be "unintelligent" to NOT be examining how to integrate it into the algorithm.
Depends on your axioms.
You might just be caught up in the latest Google algo downgrade/washout.
We have fallen too to values not seen in years.
Adsense is the biggest source of spam on Google, it would be "unintelligent" to NOT be examining how to integrate it into the the algorithm.
First off, lets take a look on how Google defines search engines spam [google.com]
Trying to deceive (spam) our web crawler by means of hidden text, deceptive cloaking or doorway pages compromises the quality of our results and degrades the search experience for everyone.
While Yahoo defines search engines spam [help.yahoo.com] as follows:
Some pages are created deliberately to trick the search engine into offering inappropriate, redundant or poor-quality search results; this is often called "spam." Yahoo! does not want these pages in the index.
Therefore I wish to ask you kindly to explain which kind of spam did you refer to when you wrote "Adsense is the biggest source of spam on Google"
Thanks!
Which search engine? I really, really need to add Adsense to a page getting traffic now (not Google), and I'm afraid to. Not from paranoia, from experience.
You're probably right, but then G doesn't tend to do per se, it adds it to the mix...
Therefore I wish to ask you kindly to explain which kind of spam did you refer to when you wrote "Adsense is the biggest source of spam on Google"
You already answered that question. MFAs are the current biggest spam source on Google (I use UK search). So, "doorway pages" as Google quite rightly described them are spam.
That's why you'll find AdSense ads on sites like newyorktimes.com and washingtonpost.com, which certainly aren't lacking in quality by any objective standard.
I've only ever seen adsense ads on the new york times site stuffed down the bottom of article pages. If they are such good quality for them why aren't they on the main, most highly visited pages of their sites, and then, above the fold with the other adverts? That is what I meant by lower quality, final attempt advertising. I would never use adsense on my "good pages", only to try and convert the last possible dregs.
If you make change to page that is working and ranking well it may be reasonable to expect to see some change
Once can be a co-incidence. Twice is suspicious. Three times smells like hand edit. Like I said - not paranoia, if anything I'm too trusting of the engines. It's fear based on genuine reasoning based on repeated observation.
NOT GOOGLE - elsewhere.
