Google Agrees to Censor Content in China

[jim2003]

while google purports to fight the US govt, it supports the anti freedom communist regime in China

[breitbart.com...]

[born2drv]

Money talks and .... walks.

Google could care less about American Privacy laws. If they're required to give up user details, that means people trust Google less which means less searches and less money.

Just like Google is going after the money in China now.

The whole privacy thing in the US had nothing to do with our rights or laws... just like the copyright infringement Google is doing with the print media they're trying to monetize. It's always whats in best interest of Google's bottom line.

Morality in Google left a long time ago.

[walkman]

Google should quietly walk away from the "do no evil" nonsense, as that has no place in the corporate world where the mission is, or should be, to make money for the shareholders; doing "evil" is needed to survive in today's world. Unless G's founders have $100 billion or so under their mattress to take Google private...

[ulstrup]

Google is not only lousy in applying to the demands of the chineese state, they could possibly be pointing a gun at their own foot. When Google conquered the world it was because of good search results, which they are NOT showing in China with this move. They must be assuming that the chineese people are ignorants. Important matters (which presumeably has lots of searches) are directed to government sites, i.e. Taiwan, Falun Gong, Tibet and democracy, if that happened in a western democracy I believe the number of Google users would drop significant.

[vincevincevince]

Perhaps Google will surprise us yet?

China "Hey Google old chum, our firewall tech police need unrestricted access, can you set that up for them? You've applied filtering to all China!"

Google "Sure, just let us know their IP blocks"

China "Right you are, I'll email them now"

Google, now in possession of the IP ranges used by the chinese tech police hatch a cunning plan in the middle of the night:

Larry "Hey tech guys at Google, whatcha say we mirror all blocked sites in our cache and 'forget to turn' on the filter for anyone ouside of the Class B IP ranges that China gave us to unlock? They're sure to be testing the filtering with computers on the same Class B"

Across China, ordinary users will suddenly find that they can use Google's cache to read all the pages that were previously blocked - Google having sneaked into China's good-books with this sham filtering agreement :-)

If only...

[europeforvisitors]

Bill Thompson discusses the "Google in China" issue calmly and rationally on the BBC News site at:

[news.bbc.co.uk...]

(I know that we normally don't drop URLs here, but there's plenty of precedent for linking to authoritative media in this and other Webmaster World forums.)

[dauction]

Ev ..He's talking in circles.. there is no comparison at all to having kiddie porn censured to having actual discussion about freedom of speech censured..

As he said google is already in China..so theres no need to bend over any further IMO

I understand what he is saying about engaging ..but this isnt engaging it's capitulating.. big difference

We are talking about a CORE human rights issue not whether you libel anyone , not whether you need to adhere by any other ISP usual terms of service ..not "even computer-generated images of sexual acts involving children are all illegal and suppressed." (no #*$! sherlock)

Here is the core of the issue ..China says you are only allowed to setup shop offering search results to our people if you censure freedom of speech on democracy , freedoms and human rights..

Google capitulated ..thats the bottom line

I ask this again...what will the Chinese think of Google when they find out that G agreed to keep them in the dark?

Maybe they are so use to being in the dark..it wont matter to them ..but it SHOULD matter to those of us who do understand how very very wrong this is ..

It's no different from aparhied or segragation in the early days of the States ... we can make excuses al day long ..but it was never right to hold another human in bondage
..to deny them basic rights .. and it certainly was never right to deny them simply for marketshare ..

So how is right today to say ..yeah we'll deny them access to listen or participate in discussions of Democracy and Human rights ... and justify it for the sake of Market share today .. or to justify it by saying Yahoo and Msn already do it..so therefore it's ok?

I'm not comforatable looking the other way ...

For me personally this changes how I feel about them.. Not that I didnt think G was really that different from any other Corporate entity ..but the image was there that they projected that they wanted to be different.. in the end those where just admiral aspirations exchanged for marketshare ...

it's the way business works.. It's amazing what the pursuit of profits do to companies.

[europeforvisitors]

Dauction, the world isn't a perfect or simple place. Israel may not like Hamas, but it needs to try engaging them. When Germany was divided by a wall and guards with machine guns, the BRD and DDR traded with each other. World War II might have been avoidable (or might not have been a world war) if America hadn't pursued an isolationist foreign policy. Fact is, there are billions of people in China, and one can make a reasonable argument that exposing them to outside influences (even with incomplete search results) is the best way to help them achieve a more open society. You don't have to agree with that argument, but those who apparently do (such as the powers-that-be at Google) shouldn't have their motives or points of view dismissed out of hand.

[wildbest]

>>there is no comparison at all to having kiddie porn censured to having actual discussion about freedom of speech censured..

Did you say freedom of speech? What speech? The one that you like or the one you dislike? Freedom of speech but only my way:

- NATO was against the freedom of speech when their planes bombed the Yugoslavian TV. They simply didn't like what that speech was about!
- The US Army expelled several AlJazeera journalists from Iraq and developed a detailed plan to bomb that media. They simply didn't like what that speech was about!

Well, what freedom of speech you're talking about? The one that you bomb because you can not censor? Wake up!

It is amazing how brainwashed can people be despite all the information that is floating around? Open your eyes!

Sorry for the politics, but some people are so blind and that it is so irritating when they try to teach other people how to live!

[canuck]

Looks like the Congressional Human Rights Caucus is going to wade into this issue of censorship in China with Google, Y! and Microsoft (and Cisco):

[redherring.com...]

[StupidScript]

I'd like to thank europeforvisitors for twice reminding us that China is in no way the first country to insist that search engines 'filter' their content in order to operate within that country's borders.

They've had to do it for a long time in Germany and other EU nations to restrict access to info about Nazi stuff, among other things.

They have to do it here in America to restrict access to munitions development and acquisition info, among other things.

So, in Europe everyone agrees that this 'censorship' is good because Nazis are potentially dangerous to the community as a whole.

In America everyone agrees that this 'censorship' is good because nobody wants a neighbour who's making dirty bombs.

And every other search engine agrees. Why pick on Google or China?

[walkman]

>> Looks like the Congressional Human Rights Caucus

publicity starving (can't use the word here :))

[Eva_Geddes]

Why "pick on Google"? I agree with you that Google is bearing the brunt of the criticism in this ongoing debate. But really --it's their own fault. We hold them to a higher moral standard because they've repeatedly asked us to. Using "it's just good business" is a very weak defense. Google used its corporate philosophy to distinguish itself from other companies, and now they argue that they do business in China because they need to be like everyone else? Perhaps the billionaires at Google downshift for profit that quickly, but others do not.

I've seen Google supporters make comments (on here and other messageboards) to the effect of: Google could actually help to alleviate the censorship by way of pure outside influence. As if Google's mere presence in the country is a stance against the regime. That providing (censored) information is better than providing no information at all. That the Chinese wouldn't have access to information without American companies.

It's ridiculous. They point to Baidu and say that its "in bed" with the oppressors, so Chinese users should search using Google. Guess what? Google is now in bed with the oppressors. It is neither better nor worse than Baidu or other chinese search engines. The fact is, Google wants the profits. It wants Baidu's business, and it's banking on its brand name to lure users. Neither Google nor Yahoo nor Microsoft is going to provide any search results that the government forbids. They are simply competing for ad revenue. That's all this is about.

Maybe the cofounders are praying that everyone forgets their "do no evil" policy. Because there really is no way that either of them can sincerely make that statement ever again and mean it. And no, I am not being naive in (GASP!) expecting a company to live up to its corporate motto.

BTW, regarding Hamas: Do you know much about Middle Eastern islamofacist regimes? Perhaps you ought to read up on that before making such a statement as you did. This is not the place to discuss such issues, but I urge you to do some research on Hamas and its policies regarding Israeli Jews.

[europeforvisitors]

I've seen Google supporters make comments...

Why do so many threads here degenerate to the level of calling people "Google supporters" or "Google-bashers"? And how does trying to pin labels on other members contribute to the quality of the discussion?

[Eva_Geddes]

No labels, just a description. It's a debate with two sides: those who support Google's decision, and those who don't. I don't see the problem.

[old_expat]

I don't know how many news stories/headlines are being written/published about the Google/China issue, but when I checked Google News a few minutes ago, the only feature on the issue had this as the lead headline.

"Why Google in China makes sense"

[Leosghost]

Presumably you are asking "G" from a computer in China

[old_expat]

"Presumably you are asking "G" from a computer in China"

Was that directed at me? No, I looked at google.com from a computer in Thailand.

[dauction]

Why do so many threads here degenerate to the level of calling people "Google supporters" or "Google-bashers"?

I'm far fom being a Googlebasher ...As a business I like Google ..I AM dissappointed though in this business decision to capitulate to china.

I think it sends the wrong message to China ..they now run all businesses even those from the west the same way they run their people ,from a dictorial position .. It makes China's decision to censure even that much stronger

As apposed to the lets just get our feet in the door approach..which also has it's merits .. I just feel it'swrong to give up basic core freedoms for this foot in the door (it's a core issue ..how do you look at yourself in the mirror selling out type of thing)

[Leosghost]

Old expat ..It would appear in that case that the Google PR machine is censoring what is said on Google News outside China ..about their policy inside China ..:(

The BBC which was running less Google friendly radio news bulletins since Friday than the ( "tech" article ) on their site would lead one to beleive is their policy ..is apparently not considered to be a good "feed" for Google news ..depending on what it says ..

They are fast learners at the plex..too fast.

[europeforvisitors]

Maybe you're just looking in the wrong place. The business section of Google News has links to headlines such as:

"If It Isn't Red, You Can't Read It on Google"

"NET STOCKS: Google's Action Makes A Mockery Of Its Values"

"Google - kowtowing to China?"

"Google: It's about money"

"Not too evil"

"Google in 'race to the bottom' in China"

"Google submits to Beijing's control"

If--as some of you imply--Google News is being censored to block negative comments about Google's China policy, then the filter needs tweaking. :-)

[old_expat]

"Maybe you're just looking in the wrong place. "

Well if the *wrong* place is Google.com/News .. then perhaps I am"

"If--as some of you imply--Google News is being censored to block negative comments about Google's China policy, then the filter needs tweaking. :-)"

No implication about censorship. Just a simple statement of fact. If that is difficult for someone to accept, it is some filter other than mine that needs tweeked.

I don't know why *some* have difficulty accepting that Google has sustained significant PR damage. Not a matter if, but how much. Nor is it a matter *if* Google attempts some repair of its reputation .. rather a matter of how much and in what manner they choose to attempt a recovery of their "good name".

[old_expat]

"The business section of Google News has links to headlines such as:

"If It Isn't Red, You Can't Read It on Google"
"NET STOCKS: Google's Action Makes A Mockery Of Its Values"
"Google - kowtowing to China?"
"Google: It's about money"
"Not too evil"
"Google in 'race to the bottom' in China"
"Google submits to Beijing's control" .."

Less than 5 minutes prior to this post, the following headlines appeared when I went to Google/News/Business

Arcelor shareholders warned over Mittal bid
Ministers more upbeat over stalled trade talks
Economy Grows at Slowest Pace in 3 Years
Boston Sci slides on FDA fears
Global plan to fight TB launched at Davos
Crude Oil Rises on Concern Iran Standoff May Disrupt Supplies
Japan to eventually allow US beef
Operating loss narrows at United
FDA approves new drug to treat angina
Valdez verdict back in court
Minority Stake in KBR Will Be Sold
Ex-Wal-Mart exec to plead guilty to fraud - paper
Jury awards $29 mln in Ford/Firestone suit
Boeing to Reorganize Its Defense Business
AOL lands new high-speed Internet partnerships
US opposes Indian investment in Syria
Lay trial a road to closure in Enron scandal
Income Gap in New York Is Called Nation's Highest
Record loss of $8bn at GM could swell even further
US EPA Seeks Elimination of Teflon Chemical by 2015 (Update2)

[Tourz]

[google.cn...]

Looks OK to me. Are only china ip's being censored by google? someone probably already discussed this.

right -- just found it, dumb question...

censoring chinese ip blocks. well I guess everyone over there could just try using Tor to get around that.

Speaking about weird china, i remember a few years back getting cut off from communicating with a client in Hong Kong during the Sars epidemic -- emails started coming back with Quarantine and "banned content" replies from whomever was in control. Never heard from them again. Hmmm, I should try finding those emails and write back.

[lgn1]

Looks like google china censorship is only skin deep. It only censor's, if you spell properly, which I can't do at the best of times :)

[money.cnn.com ]

[wheel]

I didn't see this posted here yet, one of those things making the rounds:

Google china:
[images.google.cn...]

Google rest of world:
[images.google.com...]

That sticks out at me. However my programmer is Chinese, and he seems mostly unfazed and unconcerned about all this stuff. The closest I've ever seen him get to noticing politics is to say (he drives a Honda) "A Chinese driving a Japanese car. Ha! That's funny!".

While I'm mostly ignorant of the situation, my TV tells me that a lot of Chinese are ambivilient about this kind of stuff.

[Tourz]

nice one, that's censorship! ha