Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
None of the sites I actively manage have seen any change, but one that I've consulted on has been decimated. Before October it was 3rd for some one and 2 kw searches. It dropped a couple spots around Oct 20th. Dropped a couple more on Dec 7th, then went to page 3 on Dec 20th. Is now fluctuating between page 6 and farther back.
This site has been up for about a year, and no real changes were made during this drop. All other sites in the serps for these keywords stayed in place except one - the #2 site. It was previously THE authority site, but had been moved and had a 301 redirect to the #1, new authority site. #2 dropped a little on Dec 7th, then to page 3 on Dec 20th. After the 20th, there have been a few days when the #2 site has moved back up and is now back at #2, while the site I've consulted on has dropped further, usually at the same time #2 moved back up.
While it may be that G has made no changes to the algo, I'm convinced they tweaked the weighting on some "filters" that resulted in these changes. Both sites were unchanged, yet bounced around at the exact same times. The dropped site had too much duplicate content and not enough good links from trusted sites. It was also heavily optimized for a few keywords.
I can't figure what factors caused the #2 site to drop and then recover, but it seems that G tweaked some things a little Dec 7th, hit the same things harder Dec 20th, then adjusted some in following days which brought the #2 site back up to #2. Hopefully they will continue to adjust and bring back the rankings for those who have been unjustly dropped...
[edited by: tedster at 9:57 pm (utc) on Jan. 1, 2007]
No worries. I enjoyed your post :-)
At Google.atsite: 13000
site: German only 6930
site: only austria 0The sequence looks now far better than since December 20th
But site has still high penalty in searchAt tools for webmasters from Google, still "No data available" at statistics "Page with highest rank" and "In website content"
Where is it hosted? and is it .at.
As said my english .com is hosted in Germany and is seen by Google as in Germany. Which is technically OK, but not intended as G throws half the pages away internationally, which is the main audience.
You seem to have exactly the opposite scenario.
To me it looks like a big "geotargeted" fu.
SteveB, I think you hit the nail on the head, Google is acting like a drunk!
These constant updates are extremely annoying. But since the different departments at G will have to justify getting a paycheck it's likely to stay. Bit like a bureaucracy that needs to increase red tape to justify their existance.
Given the complexity of the web and the millions of different concepts of what people define as quality, the optimal future search engine should focus more on giving the user the tools to find what they want, instead appealing to human lazyness and deliver prechewed results on algorithms that will never ever be able to predict what everybody wants or perceives as "quality" or relevant.
It's a futile exercise.
On the 20th of December at 19:23 my time which is GMT +2, I uploaded my new Top Include file for the site. It is used for 80% of my pages. This is rather interesting....
</B>
Pico_train,
In response to your comment above, I too was ravaged on December 20th, and I came back yesterday. What we have in common is that I made wholesale changes to a majority of my pages, adding a copyright disclaimer. I did this all on December 18th, and was ravaged on the 20th. My sitemap was changed accordingly, and my sitemap was picked up by Google on the 18th. I have been spidered by Googlebot in dribs and drabs since this time (which is normal of me).
We have something in common here -- massive change to the whole. I have heard several people say that this may not be good. I suggest waiting it out, and not making any further changes until this short-term penalty is perhaps lifted.
Regards,
Doug
OT: P.S. to all,
How on earth do you get quotes that you are referring to, to appear in boxes?
I have read nothing here that is different from posts from those struck in previous months!
As we all know, no site (if it is indexed in Google) is an island. We are all dependent on links from other sites. Good solid linking plus content insures our placement in the serps.
THINK ABOUT IT...
If my site gets hit this month and my pages go supplimental, what effect do you think it will have on the sites that I have linked out to, next month?
What if when I come out of "supplimental hell" my site does not really return to the primary index? By this I mean I do not regain my previous placement in the serps? Will the links out to other sites maintain their original strength? I don't think so. Sites who I link out to will not really know that my links to them have lost potency.
It seems that throughout 2006 (since BD started) there has been a domino effect happening. I am starting to think that at least some of the problems are symptoms resulting from the weakening of the linking structure.
The main problem with Google is - it is difficult to track those who link to you AND to know the realtime PR value of those links.
My point is that no matter how old or 'trusted' your site is - it is still dependent the sites linking to it and if and when those sites have 'problems' it can't help but effect those they link out to.
I think Big Daddy has caused a virtual 'tsunami' that will eventually effect, in one way or another, virtually every site Google has indexed.
Just a thought...
Happy New Year!
Caryl
How on earth do you get quotes that you are referring to, to appear in boxes?
You copy and paste what you want to post and surround it with <quote> </quote> REPLACE < and > with [ and ].
You copy and paste what you want to post and surround it with < quote > < /quote > REPLACE < and > with [ and ].
Thanks, Caryl!
By the way, I respectfully disagree with your link assertion. If this were the case, your competitors could create bogus sites that do not conform with Google standards, and link to you, thus bringing you down. I doubt that Google, even with all their problems, would agree with something like that.
Happy New Year!
Doug
I'm new on Webmasterworld.com :)!
I undestand about Data Refresh, all is right :) you can update your home page everyday with new content, but how do you do to refrech each page? for example you have 1000 pages....
Best regards,
Jakomo
I was not referring to 'bad' links. I was referring to good solid links that had previously helped my site, losing potency due to 'problems'.
Lets say my site had 3 PR6 links (among many others) pointing to it. These links would be major contributors to the PR and trust rank of my site.
What if, all of a sudden, those PR6 pages were no longer ranked as PR6 due to sites linking to them losing links? I might still see them ranked as PR6 in my Google toolbar but in real time they have been 'demoted' - maybe to a PR4.
Do you honestly think this would have no effect on my site?
The example you cited would have no effect because my site was never depending on those links in the first place.
I don't care how old or 'trusted' a site is - it will ALWAYS be dependent on links. If those links are 'demoted' or go away in significant enough numbers - that 'old and trusted' site WILL suffer.
Caryl
SteveB, I think you hit the nail on the head, Google is acting like a drunk! Best to laugh about it, instead of cry, thanks!
It's not very funny to have a heavy car accident with a drunken driver.
Okay, now I am way past stumped. I just found this today. Google is saying that several pages cannot be found.
Wait another week. But, in the mean time, just double check what those pages not found are doing and if they can be found.
The ones that they are referring to have different urls than the ones they are supposed to be. It's like Google gave them a brand new file name at the end. Instead of being, (for example) example.com/file.htm they are listing it as example.com/file-something.htm Of course it can't be found, I never created that file! Anybody have any ideas to that one?
An off the wall idea, do you have a custom 404 in place? If so, have you checked the server headers that are being returned from that custom 404? If you browse to one of those URIs that Google is showing that don't exist, what is the server header response being returned? Is it a 404? Or, is your custom 404 misconfigured and it returns a 200?
I've never really seen Google "create" not existent pages. That would be somewhat difficult to do. There has to be a link to that page, or, there is a query within the spidering of your site that produces that page.
I was not referring to 'bad' links. I was referring to good solid links that had previously helped my site, losing potency due to 'problems'.
Caryl,
I do see your point now (I guess I didn't fully appreciate your comment because of my euphoria over learning about <quote>!).
Yes, demotion of ranking from a trusted link, may have an implicit effect on you. That is a good point.
There are those on this board that think linking no longer carries the weight in Google that it used to. I don't (and have never had) an abundance of great links linking into me, yet I have always ranked high. I really believe content is king, and should always be ones # 1 focus. But, there are hundreds of other factors involved, I'm sure.
Have a safe and Happy New Year!
Doug
Google is saying that several pages cannot be found.
cajuns2,
I too, have had this problem off and on over the last year or so. It seems as if Google constructs pages from subdirectories and pages that do not exist, somewhat haphazardly. Specifically, since I tanked on Dcemeber 20th (to be resurrected on December 30th), Google found 20 "pages" on my site that it couldn't find. These pages were not referenced on any of my websites (I verified by using a reliable spidering tool), and it definitely raised a red flag.
I think the bottom line is that Google is certainly not infallible, and makes mistakes. This one is definitely to add to the list.
Doug
No, I don't have anything like that in place. I didn't figure they could create a link like that either, and I know it sounds crazy.
I have no links on any of my pages to any of those files, because I really didn't make those. I did try to go to them, and of course they can't be found, because they don't exist. Never have. I even double checked the files uploaded to be sure, because at first I couldn't figure it out. Then I saw the extra on the end. Those do not exist!
example.com/something.htm should be what the file is. They have it listed as example.com/file-something-something.htm There are around 8 of them.
I'm really confused now!
Do those ever go away in the listing, or are they there forever?
I did try to go to them, and of course they can't be found, because they don't exist.
Oh, I understand that they can't be found. It would be nice to know that they are returning a proper 404 status and not a 200 status.
If I see Googlebot spidering something, and I know that something does not exist, I'd have to backtrack and double check everything that would cause something like that to happen. One of the first things I'm going to do is check the server header status of that query (URI string).
Another thing to do is take that URI string and search the big three to see if it appears anywhere else. Did someone link to you incorrectly?
cajuns2, the site in your profile returns JavaScript errors. And, you are returning a 200 status for www. and non www. :(
[edited by: pageoneresults at 2:47 pm (utc) on Dec. 31, 2006]
I fell down from a comfortable way of living to the earning level of a rice plucker in central china.
Whatever they implemented - I can clearly state that it hasn't improved the quality of the results in my sector. There is one specific sign of quality in my specific sector that separates amateur and hobby sites from professional ones - and G is unable to determine it.
Current winners have:
- LOONG rewritten urls, schtuffed with keywords. Basically the braindead man's google optmization. AND IT WORKS!
- Large collection of unrelated links on each page. Get saturation - dont care to be on topic. AND IT WORKS!
Its really depressing. Nevertheless ...
Happy new year!
I'm not too savy on how to do this:
Check the server header status of that query (URI string)? Sorry, but I am not exactly sure what that is.
Just saw you added this:
cajuns2, the site in your profile returns JavaScript errors. And, you are returning a 200 status for www. and non www.
I'm lost, don't have a clue what to do! :(
Whatever happened...I fell down from a comfortable way of living to the earning level of a rice plucker in central china.
...
on topic. AND IT WORKS!Its really depressing. Nevertheless ...
Another European .. :\
How is your site doing under the different scenarios on google.ch?
Suche: Das Web Seiten auf Deutsch Seiten aus der Schweiz
I'm lost, don't have a clue what to do!
Hmmm, I might suggest that you start a new topic in Webmaster Technology Issues or similar forum. You may have other issues that may not be part of what is going on here. You definitely have some technical issues to address.
The JavaScript error is...
Line: 53
Char: 1
Error: "u" is undefined
Code: 0<added>
You definitely have technical issues to contend with. A site: search for your domain returns a few blatant issues.
[edited by: pageoneresults at 2:58 pm (utc) on Dec. 31, 2006]
Happy New Year.
I agree that 'content is king' and can bring tons of traffic from long tail searches.
BUT
Linking has always played an important role in that it, at the very least, effected the rate of Googlebot visits.
PLUS
At the very best - like the 'little engine that could' - if you are competing for competitive keywords, good solid linking can give you enough 'steam' to make it up some 'pretty steep climbs'.
One thing I have noticed since BD is that PR now seems to effect how deep Google will index a large site. Now days, if you have a site of example:5000 pages but your main page is only a PR3, Google may NOT index all of your pages.
As far as I can tell, this is a 'new phenomenon' since BD. SO, indeed, linking has now taken on even more significance.
IMHO,
Caryl
you can update your home page everyday with new content, but how do you do to refrech each page? for example you have 1000 pages
jakomo - welcome!
You could do this with a php include on every page (with a date or something) but the "refesh" would then be identical on every page and wouldn't achieve much at all. I don't see a need to refresh 1000 pages every day.
Do those ever go away in the listing, or are they there forever?
Yes, cajuns, they seem to go away over time. Webmaster tools seem to preoccupied with the last month only. I'm sure these 20 or so "fabricated" links will not be displayed come January.
As far as I can tell, this is a 'new phenomenon' since BD. SO, indeed, linking has now taken on even more significance.
Caryl,
I think the bottom line is we need to infiltrate Google to find out what is REALLY going on. That is the only way to truly find out. I'm thinking of hiring a stoolie (lots of SEO on the resume) to be hired into the Google think-tank. We will equip this person with state-of-the-art microphone devices, pocket-size scanners, and keys that open the executive washrooms. We will get information the old-fashion way -- we'll steal it!
OK, sorry for the OT discussion here, but it does cease to amaze me that the secrets of a company as large as Google, have not found there way into the public domain, via leaks.
Yes, linking is still important, but in my particular case, I believe superlative content has outweighed my marginal inbound quality links.
Thanks for your input,
Doug
[edited by: doughayman at 3:48 pm (utc) on Dec. 31, 2006]
You could do this with a php include on every page (with a date or something) but the "refesh" would then be identical on every page.
On a more serious note, I believe that it was this mass update that may have precipitated my December 20th - 30th Google extinction. I would suggest a more moderate update approach.
