Title Tags and Google

Can you get top 10 ranking just fine tuning title tags?

[JoeHouse]

I have heard that if you have great title tags it can make all the difference in the world in regards to where you can rank with google.

Is this true? I have a site about 1 1/2 years old and I have yet to crack the top 10 on google.

I have changed my title tags many times and the results were between top 500 and not even in the top 1000.

I have great content and a good amount of inbound links.

I am wondering if there is a grace period or time served on the internet that will make the jump from top 500 to top 10. Anybody?

I have compared my site with those in the top 10 and to be honest there is no real difference as to why they are top 10 and my site is not.

The only thing I see is age of site. These websites have been online for 4 plus years or more.

Any advise on this subject would be appreciated.

[Essex_boy]

There isnt just one magic button to push, so having just the titles correct isnt going to jump you into a whole new league.

It will help if its in theme with your keyword leaning though and Id recommend that you spend the time doing it correctly.

[JoeHouse]

Trust me my keywords are very themed and right on to suggest there should be a top 10 ranking on google. My website is right in line in regards to keywords with all the other websites, however they are in the top 10 and currently my site is a bit over 500.

So its not a keyword problem I am very confident in that.

I have a friend who swears that he played with just his titled tags over a 30 day period and one day he made a change and a few days later was not even in the top 1000. Several days later he tweak only his title tags again and within a few days his website was ranked top 5 in google for his major keyword.

[netmeg]

I've had that happen too, but I believe that usually it's a combination of things (some or most of which are unknown) and that was just the last little piece to the puzzle.

[KenB]

Title tags can be very helpful, however, in and of themselves they are not a magical solution. As has been said unless it is a totally non-competitive term, title tags will only help if there is relevant text in the body of the page.

Yes I can and have bounced pages up and down many spots in search results by simply changing the title text, however these were for very specific search phrases AND the site already tended to do well in SERPs for phrases relevant to the site.

[Murdoch]

And it really depends on the difficulty of the keyword you are trying to rank for.

Honestly I've had Google index and rank a new site at #1 for the keyword I was aiming for but then again there are only 177,000 results for my keyword phrase.

With higher tier words I would suspect age plays as a more significant factor.

Title tags still super-important. Have you tried making the name of the page the exact keyword phrase you are going for? It's not pretty for sure but it will give you a good idea of how much weight the title tag carries in your sector.

[piatkow]

Smartening up the titles and description did improve hits on my site but it all depends on the range of keywords that are finding your site. I have worked hard on what I thought were the essential keywords but what made the difference was a site map. Now my server logs show that I was probably concentrating on the wrong keywords to being with.

[JoeHouse]

Yes I have tried and name the page for the exact keyword I am targeting. However I have found that if I use just one keyword or keyword phrase Google hated the idea and dropped me not in the top 1000.

However when I used two to three keywords or keyword phrases in my title tags I did a bit better but still no where near the top 10.

My industry is very competitive. My main keyword phrase has 13 plus million result.

In regards to age of websites in the top 3 for rankings in my major keyword they are as follow #1 = 11 years #2 = 10 years #3 = 5 years.

There appears to be a pattern with length of time on the interent and top rankings.

[RichTC]

joe

length of time is relevent, good well written pages with good title tags and descriptions etc can be a good thing however, the mere fact that you claim to have changed your title tags a few times is not a good thing.

Google doesnt like that and it smells of seo hence constantly tweaking titles can hold you back. Google likes to think a page is designed for the end user not the search engine, its a fine line i know but by you constantly changing the page tags you are in effect saying to google "look here im trying some seo on my pages"

Best advise is to get you pages right and leave the title tags, H tags, descriptions and keyword density well alone whilst you get some back links to them.

[edited by: tedster at 12:36 am (utc) on Oct. 12, 2006]

[BigDave]

My guess is that you are concentrating too hard on this term. Read up on long-tail searches, and try for those.

It seems to me that you gain some sort of credibility with google for holding good position on a lot of the long-tail searches. This then helps you with the related competitive terms.

[Shoestring]

I concur with Big Dave. It has been our experience, precisely, and was the right mode for us to lock on to years ago, without question.

Today, we're #1 for one of the most highly contested two word phrases on the entire web. Years ago, for that particular phrase we did not exist no matter what we did. We decided to "settle" for targeting it wrapped inside two other words... It was a far less searched phrase, of course, but we ranked fairly well first page for it with just a little work and it brought us perfectly targeted traffic. Soon enough, we moved up, and up until we owned that four word phrase while suddenly finding ourselves on page three for the big two word one.

Research to find longer, well targeted phrases that also include the "whoppers" you dream of.

You are not going to eventually nab them all, but in time you'll get your share with good, clean effort.

[JoeHouse]

Hi Guys

Since my post on this subject I decided to change my title tags again to see what happens.

I change my title tags on 10/09/2006. Before I changed my tags my main keyword I was going after was not in the top 1000. Since the change and only changing the title tags my site now ranks 195 on google for this keyword.

Now I agree this is not a magic bullet, however if all your ducks are in a row your title tags do make a major differnce as to where you rank. Particularly on Google.

This sort of AB testing is a healthy way to figure out what works best. If we all work together in this forum we can all help each other further our success.

[triumph]

I've changed some title tags for my sites.. And it works..

Maybe this is a lame tip, but I used google webmaster tools to see which keywords google was picking up, then I used them in my title.

[Animated]

i believe there is a magic bullet but there are other things besides the title that makes you rank well.
One site i have now is always on the top 10 #6,#4,#2 with just 1 incoming one way link , i have played with it a few times, i added more content and some outbound links and *puff* i was gone from google's SERP's entirely.Then i changed my site to exactly how it was before and i came back into the top 10, its really weird but i believe this magic can be achieved from luck or know how to put the keyword in all the right positions.My keyword is a medium popular from usually from 10,000,000 -13,000,000 so now i am not touching or changing that website at all because i dont wanna lose being in the top 10 serps its been good for traffic.

[energylevel]

Animated ... can you give an indication of the sites subject matter, is it commercial?....etc .... It really will make a big difference, in my experience in the particularly competitive sectors you're going to need a lot more than good title tags and on page optimisation to successfully target the really competitive phrases.

[JoeHouse]

I agree with energylevel. I have been playing with title tags in a very competitive commercial market and the closest I have gotten to the top is ranked 195.

So the question in my case here is do I continue to tweak the title tag to get lets say in the top 50? Or should I start to concentrate in other areas to get to the top?

I have several other competitors who have several sites all in the same industry as my site. What gets me is every site they have are all in the top 10 on Google.

I just don't get how they do it! The age of their sites range from 1 year to 4 plus and everyone of them has high rankings.

What's their secret? Totally Frustrated.....

[energylevel]

I would strongly advise against continuously tinkering with your title tag.... Maybe look at some other factors;

1) Keep expanding and adding good quality content/new pages to your site

2) Look for ways to add good quality, relevant inbound links to your site, be careful and avoid any quick fixes offered to you to add large quantities of links automatically or quickly, they'll probably at worse useless or possibly even damaging.

3) Make sure your site's navigation system(s) on your site is/are search engine friendly, this is a basic mistake I still see a lot despite the emergence of CSS based menus over the last few years.

[g1smd]

Inbound links with the keyword in, or near, the link text are both a vote for your site, and for those keywords being associated with your site. A few of those wouldn't harm you.

[energylevel]

<<Inbound links with the keyword in, or near, the link text are both a vote for your site, and for those keywords being associated with your site. A few of those wouldn't harm you.>>

AGREED, A KEY FACTOR!

[Animated]

i did more then just do the right SEO for thr Title tag, i tried to put the keyword in all the right places (Image alt tag,keyword density,Link text etc...)its not a high competitive keyword maximum google results are always up to 13,000,000 it takes more then just the Title tag to rank well what i wanted to show is that to rank well on some low/medium competition keywords is possible without much incoming links in my case just 1 link from PR 0 sites.

[energylevel]

It can done sometimes as you say really depends on the sector competition and sometimes on how clued up about SEO your competitors are ....... if your competitors are acquiring sh*t loads of good quality IBL then you'll need to most likely do the same to keep up!

Plan B can be look for gaps that competitors are perhaps not exploiting ......

[Murdoch]

The more pages you add with the keyword you are trying to rank for in those pages (and yes especially the title tags) the better chance you will emerge in the top ten for that keyword. For example:

Homepage Title Tag: Cheap Widgets

then diversify the inner pages with lower tier keywords along the same lines as your main keyword

Inner Page 1: Cheap Widgets in Phoenix
Inner Page 2: Cheap Widgets Sales and Specials
Inner Page 3: Cheap Widgets for your dog

etc.

That of course is just one factor. Like many people on here have been saying it is always nice to have some good IBLs