Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
any non-relevant links wouldn't be considered ...
and too many links may just trigger google's scanner to take action against your website...
While I've seen some theory and minor evidence to support that Google gives more weight to "on theme" links (and it is indeed a theory I would subscribe to), I've seen nothing to suggest that they completely ignore irrelevant links.
In fact I would go as far as to say that I don't think Google (or any other SE) are competent enough in identifying themes, groups, associations, etc to put such a reliance on them - the industry is still in its infancy.
A link is a link - some *may* have more impact, some *may* have less impact, some *may* have no impact at all. That's about as certain as anyone can be about it just now IMO.
MG
any non-relevant links wouldn't be considered ...
A couple here and there would be considered, it depends on how many you get.
Google considers relevant theme based links...
any non-relevant links wouldn't be considered ...
Absolutely wrong statement!
I have reported in other posts that irrelevant links from authoritative sites DO COUNT a lot for Google.
I have a website that holds #1 position for 2,500,000 Google results and has just 3-4 low PR backlinks and ONE BACKLINK on a PR6 page of an authoritative, totally irrelevant site!
Please note that I do NOT suggest to get more than a single backlink from each irrelevant site. This would probably be an alert for Google.
and too many links may just trigger google's scanner to take action against your website...
Absolutely incorrect and illogical. For most sites, the majority of links will have nothing to do with the theme of the site being linked to. Commercial sites may have a lot of backlinks coming from industry-specific sites. But, for the most part, how much natural linking is going to occur with a, for example, online pharmacy anyway?
The only thing that makes a link relevant or not is the anchor text.
The owner of a kayak school links to his auto mechanic because he has never gotten better service. To me, that is more of a vote than simply being listed in an "on-topic" auto mechanic directory.
For the PR calculation, I would have to say that it is my opinion that it makes no difference.
In other areas of the algo, it probably does make a difference. I'm certainly not going to turn down a link simply because it is from an off-topic site.
Google considers relevant theme based links...
any non-relevant links wouldn't be considered ...
You're joking, right?
plus..IMHO...while you cannot determine marginally offtopic links....a large number of non-relevant links and poor linking structures between them (non-organic) may well see a negative impact on your site rather than just a neutral one...
Google considers all links
On-theme links bring 2 distinctive values:
--> stronger consideration when calulating value to the site being pointed to AND (maybe even more important)
--> Targeted relevant traffic from the on-theme link itself
which will tend to have a higher conversion rate...
An Authoritative inbound link from a off-theme or on-theme site carries its own unique valuation.
Off-theme links can add value in sheer numbers...but the traffic coming through these links tends to be low grade and doesn't offer conversion value like with an on-theme link relationship
personally i never feel the discussion has degraded till someone starts flinging mud.....
i wonder if you have thought about the difference between relevance and theme and ontopic....
any non-relevant links wouldn't be considered
Really? Google's software must be incredible to be able to do such heuristics. Imagine a computer being able to decide such relevance.
Links from on-theme/on-topic sites appear in many theories/patents/etc to be weighted more heavily (ie off-topic still count) in the 'relevance' part of the ranking formula (or something similar, but not PR). We just do not know if any or parts of the theories/patents have actually been implemented by Google.
its the relevance calculation that matters.....
This is what I also thought until one year ago. Now I have several real paradigms where backlinks from OFF-topic, high PR sites count significantly.
It all really depend on what we compare:
<high PR from off-topic site> VS. <low PR from on-topic site>: Winner = OFF-topic
<PRx from off-topic site> VS. <PRx (equal) from on-topic site>: Winner = ON-topic
A cool mix will bring you the best results for sure :)
[edited by: aris1970 at 10:31 pm (utc) on June 28, 2005]
It is inevitable that when links are discussed (inbound/outbound/relevant/on-topic/off-topic/authorative/organically acquired/purchased...etc) .. that the discussion tends to degrade because everyone has different experiences with how Google calculates all of this and how these caclulations ultimately affect one's site or sites..at any given time in the SERPs cycles..
So planning a link campaign at any level really has to originate from these simple points:
--> Google is a a link based search engine content aggregator
--> Google will find pages via established (aged) and newly acquired (fresh) link relationships...
--> Google will see all the link relationships (that aren't intentially hidden or buried for whatever reason)
--> Google will then calculate, in the background, per each page crawled, the value of each link based on it's rating systems (authorative vs. relevant vs. on-topic vs. off-topic...etc..etc..) and then these calculations eventually find their respective place in the value of a page and it will find its place in the SERPs
--> The value of the link relationship itself should be the first consideration before the site owner starts to think about ranking and PR...
Peculiar definition of "degrades".
Relevant search terms on linked pages improve search results.
Links from most sites improve your PR. They can never hurt. Otherwise site could be attacked in this way. However it could draw you unwanted attention if it was deemed that the link came from a bad neighborhood.
High PR is one leg, relevant links is the second leg and the tripod is completed with good on-site.
Logical
Cars > Car Seats > Leather > Cows > Milk
You don't have to take too many steps before relevancy is diluted.
I think ideally, you would want to get links from sites that link to your topic in some way - but it is unlikely that Google has yet mastered the ability to determine where to draw the line.
I wouldn't have any problem thinking that a site links from "on theme" pages gets brownie points, but I doubt that "off theme" page links are discounted. Too much human judgement is necessary at this point.
""Really? Google's software must be incredible to be able to do such heuristics. Imagine a computer being able to decide such relevance. ""
I think Google has. Maybe its the same software or algo that they are using for Adsense.
and too many links may just trigger google's scanner to take action against your website...
Trigger the algo, I now think yes. One of my sites Gtraffic collapsed last month when a friend and I traded reciprocal links on 16k pages. I had him remove the links but not sure if I'll also need to plead with Google to remove a penalty.
And vice Versa
What is wrong with that?
What is wrong with that?
I'd sure like to see basic link guidelines from Google on this. At the conference Google said to use "user experience" as the guideline, and as Sly notes there are many instances where 2 large sites would crosslink naturally - in fact in the early days this was standard practice to make sure people noted your friend's website.
That said I would NOT have done this if I had all the info I have now about how Google seems to frown on this type of linking.
Joe
This is pretty clear G-- views relevant links through the search terms as provided by inbound links. Although it might not improve PR it can improve search results placement.
