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Poor Sites Convert Better, or Worse?

     
12:45 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Adsense is the best system at the moment, but here are some reasons why it sucks anyway:

If clicks from a website "convert", you receive more money per click than if they dont "convert". This means crappy website get paid more than quality websites.

Why?

Because:

1. People never return to crap sites after clicking, so they are more likely to "convert" by registering on another website or maybe browsing a shop and buying a product.

2. Adsense mainly shows "competitive" ads as they are contextual. This is good for crappy sites from 1. as you can influence the kind of advertising to be shown but bad for any kind of proper website.

12:52 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Do you think that Adsense is crappy when you receive your monthly cheque?
12:54 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I'm guessing that the problem is that it's not monthly for everyone ;).
1:01 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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and sometimes you can only buy crap with the check...
1:19 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Your "thinking" is illogical.

How do you know crappy websites get paid more than quality websites? Maybe visitors to crappy sites just hit the "back" button.

1:33 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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because i have a crappy website myself and i have less work with it and earn more than with my good websites.

this almost encourages to do more crappy websites

2:20 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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yes, the return on investment can be astonishing. To produce crap you just need a couple of hours. But consider that some day the advertisers or google can decide to crack on all the crap websites and a good web site have also other means of monetization besides adsense.
2:55 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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In one of the heated discussions we had before on what defines a scraper site, one proponent of scraper sites proudly boasted that he/she is on the way to 7 figure income. The poster admitted that his/her sites are crap. That was a year or so ago.

A few months (or weeks?) ago, I saw a post from the same person saying that he/she now only earns a few hundred dollars or less. The poster said that his/her site took a hit when G cleaned up crappy sites.

Crappy sites = short term
Good sites = long term

Just figure out what you want a year from now. Others may want to make hay while the sun is up and churn out dozens and dozens of crappy sites. If you're for the long haul, though, you'll stick to quality sites

3:03 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Furthermore, with a crap site once you are banned from adsense probably you are going to land on some also crap ads network.
8:58 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Amazing! I just checked my stats and clicked on a link that shows me who is linking to my site. All the ones I clicked on, were crap sites lol.

They all were scraper directory type sites focused on specific keywords, (like for a recipe that I'm the only one in the world that has)

They grab your attention right away with 2 large rectangles in your face. You scroll down and there is the links with a short descrip and then to the right a real nice skyscraper.

Geeze... unreal

9:03 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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If you don't like AdSense then...

DON'T USE IT!

CANCEL TODAY!

Leave the ad revenue for those that appreciate it.

9:05 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Oh this thread again.

Here is my answer to the adsense for the long term means you use a awesome website with great compelling content.

The long haul for a "crap site" webmaster is not the one crappy site you see. Its the process they use to produce 10 more crappy sites.

Get out of the one website mentality.

9:37 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Get out of the one website mentality.

I think I know why so many webmasters stick with one or two sites. Time is obviously one reason. But the other is lack of confidence. What I mean is that I run into a lot of webmasters who cringe at the thought of venturing into a field they aren't experts in (or at least have a natural interest in). I understand it, but you have to overcome it. Take a risk! Build a site about something you don't know a thing about. It won't kill ya, trust me. Heck, I have sites about everything from airsoft BB guns (which I do know about) to hair styles (which I'm clueless about). Guess which one makes me more money (a LOT more)? Yep, the hair site. You just have to take a big gulp and DO IT. Hire writers if you can't or won't take the time to learn enough to write content that will impart useful information. Once you get that first "know nothing" site out of the way, you'll discover that you've developed a process that you can then repeat. Think Henry Ford and his assembly line. Simple idea that made him a gazillionaire. His IDEA, other people's SWEAT. No different here.

9:43 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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The long haul for a "crap site" webmaster is not the one crappy site you see. Its the process they use to produce 10 more crappy sites.

That's pretty much my impression too.

But here's an important (to me anyhow) aspect of this whole thing.

Sites on the fringe often offer important lessons about techniques that we can learn from. That doesn't mean we should all run out and build lower quality or fringe sites.

It does mean it might be profitable to pay attention to what works for low quality (content wise) sites to see if there is anything that might be appropriate for, and work well in, a more mainstream context.

But that's just my opinion.

9:46 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Heck, I have sites about everything ...

Swebbie, I'm trying to diversify a little more, and am curious how many sites are you able to run?

9:54 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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But the other is lack of confidence.

That's not always the case as I have a few sites but I tend to gravitate back to the cash cow as a few updates there tend to generate WAY more revenue then spending a ton of time on the less profitable sites.

I understand the need for diversification but there is also the concept of investing the most where it pays the best, just like in the stock market.

10:35 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I think I know why so many webmasters stick with one or two sites. Time is obviously one reason. But the other is lack of confidence.

Any idiot can crank out dozens of Web sites, and many idiots do. Not all people with many Web sites are idiots, of course, but I'd guess that quite a few of them have short attention spans and no idea what they'll be doing six months or a year from now.

There's a lot to be said for doing something well and carving out a reputation as an authority in your niche. For one thing, you'll have an opportunity to "monetize" your content in a variety of ways--not just from AdSense. And if your content is "evergreen," your revenue base will grow (thereby increasing your income) month after month, year after year.

In a nutshell: There's a lot more to publishing than the Web equivalent of those weekly throwaway ad supplements that arrive on your doorstep or in your mailbox.

10:53 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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thats not the point EFV, The point of the responses was to illustrate the logic behind the "crap sites" to the OP

Some other things:

- just because you have 10 semi automated sites doesn't mean you don't have 2 high quality sites.

- You can have semi automated sites that have worth, and I believe that you can jusdge the quality of the programmer by just how useful a semi automated site is.

11:11 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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This means crappy website get paid more than quality websites.

I bet it does mean exactly that, in some topic niche, somewhere in the universe.

However, you haven't taken into account that your crappy website has to get visitors in order to get paid. Who's going to want to link to you and give you free, highly qualified traffic (remember, better qualified traffic converts better and ups the amount you get paid per click) if you have a crappy site?

And how are your SERPs with that crappy site? 'Cause if you're getting good free Google traffic with that traffic site, I bet I can make a decent website that ranks higher (remember, Google has enough data to form an opinion about how likely it is the SE traffic they sent you actually found your site useful, and they can use that in ranking).

Finally, you don't take into account that AdWords advertisers now have the ability to refuse to run their ads on crappy websites.

Thus, I end up with the following contradictory argument:

Good websites pay better than crappy ones.

  1. They rise higher in the SERPs with less SEO effort.
  2. They produce better qualified traffic, and hence higher per-click payments.
  3. They attract more advertisers, both by not pissing off advertisers, and by being more likely to be the kind of website where someone would want to pay for, for example, a CPM banner.

I bet there are more topic areas where my argument is true than yours. :-)

12:08 am on Sept 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Thanks Ronburk, your post is like a breath of fresh air.
1:23 am on Sept 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Swebbie, I'm trying to diversify a little more, and am curious how many sites are you able to run?

Hi Rover... I currently run 10 sites, with #11 in the building process and not indexed yet. I've paid a few writers to write quality articles built around relevant keywords to populate the pages for each site, and I have written many more myself. It's a lot of work, but honestly, it's also a learning process. I feel like I've gone to school on many of the site topics. That's what I was getting at before: don't be afraid to get in there and research a topic, then build a site about it. Time consuming? Sure, but it doesn't have to be that big of a deal. Learn as you go. I'll focus all my time on a new site for a couple of weeks, doing basically nothing else. When I have the skeleton of that site set up, it's just a matter of filling in pages, which I do a bit at a time over a couple of months, as I'm working on my other sites as well.

Remember: most of the people looking for what your site is about are not experts either. I can't tell you how often I get emails from different people thanking me for giving them very basic (but to them, important) information on one of my sites. I think too many webmasters get caught up in thinking their site has to be the end-all be-all, the final word on this or that topic. C'mon, it's a big web, right? Don't try to be everything to everyone, unless that's what you want (and there's nothing wrong with that). Just don't think that you have to be some kind of expert on a topic to build a site about it. I think THAT is what scares too many people off and prevents them from expanding their businesses into other topics.

How did experts attain that status? Someone taught them. When you do research on a site topic, you're learning from someone else. Same thing as the experts - only you're not devoting so much time to get to the expert level. You're just packaging what you've learned and (hopefully) imparting it to others who find your site from a search engine. I remember the first site I built about something I didn't know a thing about beforehand. I was afraid it would be too simple - that people finding the site would not gain anything from it. I was wrong. Trust me, even if you do a little bit of research on the topic, what you then impart will be of major help to someone who knows nothing about it. I know because I got lots of comments about that first "know nothing" site, and most of them were 'thank you' emails from someone who took away something useful from my site. That's very gratifying, and from then on I was unafraid to build sites on topics I knew little or nothing about. Just do it!

Finally, I'll say that I think I'm reaching my limits for a one-man operation. I think about 10-12 sites will be my personal limit. At that point, I'll invest more of the profits into hiring writers and maybe a webmaster to handle the time consuming aspects of running it all. Having said that, I'm sure many others can handle twice as many sites, and some probably can't handle half as many. That's another part of the learning process - you learn your limits. Just don't let the fact that you know little or nothing about something stop you. I feel certain that it does stop too many folks who don't give themselves nearly enough credit.

1:36 am on Sept 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

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In a nutshell: There's a lot more to publishing than the Web equivalent of those weekly throwaway ad supplements that arrive on your doorstep or in your mailbox.

It's just a matter of choosing one approach or the other. If I had one overarching interest or hobby or passion, perhaps I'd create a site about it and devote all my work time to it. Some days I wish I did have that kind of singular focus. But I was dealt a different hand to play, just like a lot of other folks. I don't have one topic that has captured my interest like no other. But, I do like the process of coming up with, researching, and then creating different sites on myriad topics. Short attention span? Hmmm, from one point of view, I suppose that's true. From another, I'm very focused - just not on the same topic every day. I suspect many others in this forum can relate.

You know, there is no "better" or "worse" approach, imho. Sites like EFV's cater to the more advanced (and probably repeat) users. At least that's what I gather from his comments - I've never been to his site. Clearly, there's a place for that on the web. I know from the feedback I've gotten over the years that my sites cater to beginners and intermediate users on each particular topic. So, between those with EFV's kind of site and those with sites more like my 10, we've got all the bases covered. Why does it have to be a contest between "poor" and "great" sites?

1:45 am on Sept 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

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GREAT POSTS Swebbie!

Thanks.

There are as many reasens for various kinds and quality of sites as there are webmasters.

I'm a one site guy at this point. I do so wish I could manage more than one site, there's a ton of stuff I'd like to do on the web. Unfortunately I've got the attention span of a cranky, tired, two year old.... so focusing one just one site is all I've managed so far.

Also, quality is pretty subjective, and if you really blow it, someone is very likely to email you with a friendly heads up and better info.

2:37 am on Sept 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I take serious umbrage with Sweebies use of logic and ability to look at things from a broader perspective than his own.
2:38 am on Sept 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

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“GREAT POSTS Swebbie!”

I’ll second that. I’m new to the forum and I find the posts very interesting too.

I tend to move from one interesting endeavor to another. However, you do have to be a glutton for punishment because it’s often a struggle to learn new stuff – but I do like to research and learn.

I have just completed an Ecommerce site but next I am looking at either a content or a directory type site.

Swebbie,
When you use the many site approach, each time you build a new content site, how many pages do you start with? I guess factors other than page count matter too, but I was curious and thought I would ask – and I have read Brett’s 26 steps, also very interesting.

3:14 am on Sept 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

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There are as many reasens for various kinds and quality of sites as there are webmasters.

Precisely, which is why it doesn't make sense to say "get out of the one Website mentality" or to suggest that people who aren't into mass production of Web sites lack confidence.

In the immortal words of The Mamas and the Papas, "You gotta go where you wanna go, do what you wanna do."

3:19 am on Sept 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

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There are as many reasens ...

reasens? raisins? oh wait, I think I meant reasons! .............sigh, did I mention my attention span? Apparently it isn't long enough to reach spell check... :)

3:25 am on Sept 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

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The "get out of the one website mentality" was intended to mean that the OP was thinking only of the reasons to have one high quality website.
3:34 am on Sept 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

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“GREAT POSTS Swebbie!”

I’ll second that. I’m new to the forum and I find the posts very interesting too.

I tend to move from one interesting endeavor to another. However, you do have to be a glutton for punishment because it’s often a struggle to learn new stuff – but I do like to research and learn.

I have just completed an Ecommerce site but next I am looking at either a content or a directory type site.

Swebbie,
When you use the many site approach, each time you build a new content site, how many pages do you start with? I guess factors other than page count matter too, but I was curious and thought I would ask – and I have read Brett’s 26 steps, also very interesting.

5:35 am on Sept 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I take serious umbrage with Sweebies use of logic and ability to look at things from a broader perspective than his own.

Do you need me to explain what I meant when I wrote: "So, between those with EFV's kind of site and those with sites more like my 10, we've got all the bases covered. Why does it have to be a contest between "poor" and "great" sites?"? Did you not understand that this statement is an example of precisely what you claim I was lacking when you took umbrage?

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