I (heart) CSS

What was I doing all this time?

[pleeker]

Been building web sites for a handful of years now, but only in the past 3-4 months decided to plunge into the CSS world.

What was I doing all this time???

Anyway, I do have a legitimate question: Until now I've used CSS only on relatively simple sites as a way to get my feet wet. Now I'm wrapping up a much larger project, multiple databases with custom layout files, etc., and the CSS is handling everything perfectly.

I was pleasantly surprised today (when I did the first cross-platform and cross-browser check on this project) to find that there were far fewer issues to resolve than I've had to deal with on previous sites of a similar nature. I can't help but wonder if that's thanks in some part to the use of CSS? Anyone else found their sites more compatible across browsers/platforms with CSS than without? Is that the way it's supposed to work? :)

[papabaer]

Hello Pleeker! There is a lot to be said for separation of style and content: one of the best is cleaner, easier to manage page code. Even so, without testing and experience, problems can arise. I think just learning CSS brings a better awareness of "what works where, and why." That might explain fewer issues to deal with...

Coding using CSS requires a different mind-set than what you were used to; as you learned CSS, I am certain your perspective AND awareness of element relationships grew as well. Win, win! ;)

[Nick_W]

Yes, and a by product of the many browser issues is designers are kind of forced to learn the technology to a level they probably didin't even achieve with the old way.

None of the wysiwyg nonsense for the css pro, you need to understand the technology intimatesly.

I found my understanding of html also reached new heights upon deciding to ditch DW and go fully hardcore CSS ;)

Love it!

Nick

[starway]

I can't help but wonder if that's thanks in some part to the use of CSS? Anyone else found their sites more compatible across browsers/ platforms with CSS than without? Is that the way it's supposed to work?

Of course, there are some issues with CSS compatibility/support in different browsers (like in anything else). But it's much smaller problems count for CSS though. If you implement CSS considering with known particular problems/incompatibility, you'll get excellent results.

My first acquaintance with CSS was about ~2 years ago while working on some site. I was very pleased to see how easy is CSS to use and how elegand the code become after it! Also don't forget about page's size reduction, sometimes very significant.
It was used for paddings/margins/indents/text properties only (though even nowadays it is used in 90% of all cases for these purposes only) and I got the pages looking absolutely the same in 4 different browsers: IE5, NN4.7, Opera5 and N6 release preview 2 (it was in summer 2000). I just wondered why there were so few sites I saw that use it.
Since then I use only 'hardcore' CSS.

[rewboss]

The worst browser to cater for is NS4. It's still pretty important for many sites (anything up to 20%, tedster claims 40% on some of his sites), but getting less so. Issues there include problems with inheritance, bugs with margins and many features simply not supported. If NS4 isn't an issue for you, CSS is definitely easier.

Best feature of CSS: using external stylesheets. You can change the entire look of your 500-page site by making one small edit in one file.

[Eric_Jarvis]

the other crucial aspect of css is that you can (in fact pretty much have to) write mark up that makes sense without any presentation at all...so whatever the browser does there is at the root of it a usable html page...so even if the appearance isn't the same, it is far easier to maintain usability across browsers

[piskie]

I agree with Rewbos, NS4x is by far the worst to cater for with CSS but on some specialist sites (I find particularly those with Mac OS) that the percentage is too high to ignore.

I use 2 external CSS files and Reference as Follows:
<Link Rel="stylesheet" Type="text/css" href="old.css">
<Style type="text/css">@import url(new.css);</style>

The external CSS files are loaded in order and the last one loaded is applied by the browser.

As the older 4 series browsers don't recognise "@ import" they will only load and apply the "old.css".

The newer browsers (5+) however will load both CSS files and apply the "new.css" file because that is the last one they loaded. The cascading effect, obey the last CSS order.

[pleeker]

The worst browser to cater for is NS4. It's still pretty important for many sites (anything up to 20%, tedster claims 40% on some of his sites), but getting less so. Issues there include problems with inheritance, bugs with margins and many features simply not supported. If NS4 isn't an issue for you, CSS is definitely easier.

We're seeing very little NS4 usage on our clients' sites, but we do still keep that browser here for testing. I'm aware of the features it doesn't support, so we try to minimize the use of those.

I also suspect that many of the few remaining NS4 users are, by now, somewhat used to seeing web sites that don't quite look "right".

Best feature of CSS: using external stylesheets. You can change the entire look of your 500-page site by making one small edit in one file.

Amen.

[Purple Martin]

I also suspect that many of the few remaining NS4 users are, by now, somewhat used to seeing web sites that don't quite look "right".

I'd agree with that. There are some users who can't drop N4 because their university won't let them, chances are thay'll switch as soon as they leave uni, and even the unis will change some day (hopefully soon). There are some users who won't drop N4 because they're bloody-minded, well that's their choice so I'm happy to leave them with their ugly layout (but I'll still make sure all the content is available in a sensible order for them). All the others have upgraded/will upgrade very soon.

[vmcknight]

I use 2 external CSS files and Reference as Follows:
<Link Rel="stylesheet" Type="text/css" href="old.css">
<Style type="text/css">@import url(new.css);</style>

This was a life-saving tip for me; a lot of the people I'm trying to reach work in government agencies, schools, etc. with antique equipment. Now I can finally use positioning without having the columns overlapping each other in NN4. The columns end up one after the other, but at least it's readable.

Got a few sites to re-design... Thanks!