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Toxic Lemon gone from Google?

where is it?

     

JoeyJoeJoe

5:53 pm on Dec 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I was just looking at some of the UK engines in Google and I cant find Toxic Lemon at all, no pages, not even the front page. It is still showing a pagerank but even the cached pages are gone.

Isnt this a bit odd? There will be several hundred searches per month on Google by people searching for the site. A quick look at the Overture UK suggestion tool shows 753 searches for "toxic lemon" last month.

I guess that they annoyed Google, like Search King did, but it seems that google should at least keep the front page in. This is a hand deletion if ever I saw one.

TinkyWinky

10:02 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



no way that it was an accident

Blimey! this could herald a very rocky road for a great number of sites.

Bobby - A quick devil's advocate question first

if it was deliberate how come TL was back in so quickly? ;)

But really this could cause major ructions to google SERPS:

By moving in to remove espotting & overture listings in UK SERPS (is this to increase adwords revenue pre or post IPO?) they *could* potentially remove thousands of sites completely - save for 10 odd pages (they have to keep partially on the right side of the webmaster?)

Now this poses a few questions:

- is that all sites that have any espotting or overture listings?

unlikely

- sites where more than 5 results are shown say?

this is very likely I think as shows that there is no affiliate only presence (also stops people like handbag / ivillage et al being dropped)

- sites with mostly or all espotting or overture results?

Most likely - those that are made up entirely of results from either camp beware

As to whether Google can do it pre or post IPO - why not. They can do what they like whilst they have the user base. But if they start to knock the results and get bad press - then that's down to them also.

I am all for ensuring that the results displayed have good quality and provide the user with the right information - if that's via a site like TL that has been around for a while and worked hard on content and it's directory then so be it - it's the information that I am interested in not the way I get it (i.e. don't shoot the messenger!)

I think the real problem lies with sites that have had no presence and BANG within 3 weeks are almost in the top 500 sites worldwide with fairly sh*te results! There are a couple of recent additions to that category that I am sure most of us are aware of!

Anyway enough of my two pence worth - off to the pub for a post Chrissie beer.

Bobby_Davro

10:28 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The reason that I say it was deliberate was that there were no pages left at all - it was completely wiped. Also, when doing a search for the site, it is normal to receive a "No pages were found containing ..." message when the URL simply doesn't exist in google. That message didn't appear for TL, suggesting that pages were indeed found, but just not shown.

Obviously this is not 100% conclusive, but I am as sure as I can be.

This is not the only site to disappear in this manner either, as you know. The other of which I am directly aware has not been reinstated and has been removed from Google for several days now.

if it was deliberate how come TL was back in so quickly? ;)

I honestly don't know. I am guessing that they changed their minds, perhaps for financial reasons.

By moving in to remove espotting & overture listings in UK SERPS

I don't think that this is a part of a longer term plan at the moment, so let's not confuse the two issues. The issue of whether Google will tackle the other affiliate PPC companies is very different and there is no evidence at this point to suggest that this has started or ever will. It has been a frequent topic of discussion off board, and it is all guess work.

It may be that Google have no desire to bash Espotting and Overture. Both companies add to the overall online advertising world and bring in new advertisers. All those new advertisers will end up with Adwords eventually anyway. Too much supposition at the moment though, but when I saw TL go the same way as the others, I did momentarily think that Google had started a concerted campaign. Inktomi already has blocking in place, so it is not far fetched to imagine that Google will do the same.

ncw164x

6:49 am on Dec 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>I notice a good number of long time members posting in this thread, so there is obviously some genuine interest.

Nah not much happens in the UK forum and this is the longest thread for a while so we all though we would join in

lol - well it's chrismas init

ncw164x

Bobby_Davro

11:14 am on Dec 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Exactly my point. If a google reprentative coughs, it is worth discussing in the UK ;-)

ciml

12:21 pm on Dec 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ciml is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



> That message didn't appear for TL, suggesting that pages were indeed found, but just not shown.

I'd agree with that, but sites are removed for a variety of reasons so I wouldn't want to be too quick to assume the reason in this instance.

It's interesting it popped back so quickly.

Bobby_Davro

3:33 pm on Dec 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I am not suggesting that I know the reason it was removed, merely that it looks very much like it was deliberate. And how it got back in so quickly... only Google knows ;-)

bignet

1:21 pm on Jan 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Google should remove these spammy sites. I am sure they will

TinkyWinky

11:29 pm on Jan 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



remove these spammy sites

If they provide the right links and information - then why remove to have more tat fill in the holes?

bignet

8:12 pm on Jan 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think Google should not give much weight to sites built using too many aff links mixed with popular search engines results most of it ppc.

spam [webmasterworld.com] or not we might disagree

But if you want to search using TL, then thats another issue

craigtubby

12:21 pm on Jan 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



If they provide the right links and information - then why remove to have more tat fill in the holes?

Surely this would just show the weakness of Google search results?

If you search for cheap widgets, what should google return? A page on another site that points to sites that sell cheap widgets, or a page of results that point to sites that sell cheap widgets?

TinkyWinky

2:03 pm on Jan 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



the weakness of Google search results?

It does in a funny sort of way! But remember that a good number of webmasters are out there second guessing the next move algo-wise, so unless they have underhand seo, cloaking or redirects in place, all's fair in love and war as they say!

a page of results that point to sites that sell cheap widgets?

Either way you get the right results! With Florida a lot of affiliate sites have gone for big phrases - but for more obscure terms, many sites have not set themselves up or optimised in anyway for search engines (yes it does still happen!) - or worse still they have crammed lots of images and no text therefore ensuring that google et al have little or no chance of picking them up as "on topic"

The greater debate here IMHO is whether an search engine should return more than a certain number of sites that contain affiliate feeds where the affiliate results are identical!

IanTurner

3:26 pm on Jan 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator ianturner is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



I think you have hit the crux of the problem there. I certainly know of one key phrase where 8 of the top 10 listings are generated 'affiliate' keyword targetted serps. I'm sure there are more examples of similar things out there and its not really till you hit page two that you start to get what I would see as the relevant results for the query.
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