Forum Moderators: mack
As for skills, you can never learn too much. The more you know, the more versatile you are, and therefore get paid more (hopefully).
Also real-world experience is the only thing thats going to give you the confidence to sell yourself.
If you were looking to get a job with a company perhaps a degree would count more, but even then I've never been asked about mine. I would have thought that potential clients will be more interested in seeing your portfolio than your degree certificate. imho of course.
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A formal relevant education is an asset you're only able to get when you're young
not quite true - I was over 30 when I started my degree.
Doing a degree will put you in a financial situation that will take years to clamber out of. That is unless your family is loaded and picking up the bill, in which case do one anyway as it's a great experience.
In my personal experience my degree counted for nothing when I got my first web job, they only skimmed over the details of it at my interviews. I stayed at the company for 3 years working on various projects and learning more at a faster rate than I ever did whilst at Uni. I now work for myself and my degree is even more irrelevant now than it was when I was doing it ;)
So, if you have the time and money to spare do a degree for the experience and life education. However, don't expect it to guarantee you a job.
After I've started working I would like to go back and complete a BS in Physics that I am working on right now; but will have to put on hold until I get a good job.
When hired in late 1999, I had minimal programming (Fortran, C, SAS, UNIX), but was self-taught in HTML and PhotoShop 4. What seemed to matter most was that I had two urls listed on my resume. One was a personal site I built which contained my resume, a simple rants page (an early blog I guess), and a list of Geography resources, since that's what I was studying at the time. I also had a summer job redesigning the Geology department's web site for $8 US per hour. Although the pages were techically primitive, even by 1999 standards, they looked just unusual enough in design that I did get a few interviews. (mostly at universities, maybe it is easier to get hired in higher-ed, get hired at one of those and you can possibly go to school for free) So I would suggest you set up a site of some kind, if you haven't done so already.
Make something that shows some combination of
a) programming skill in Javascript, CSS, maybe server-side includes if you have a server that is configured for such.
b) skill at organizing varying bits of information into an easy-to-use site. Maybe there are people who are great at programming, but less experienced at putting things together in ways that make sense to anyone else.
c) design skill, if your pages are pleasant to look at, that will help.
*And* Make sure your showcase site is free of spelling errors. It shouldn't matter for the type of work you want to do, but why chance it, so get a friend to check over your site.
*Software I'm currently using:
HomeSite, FrontPage (Some might consider this a detraction), Dreamweaver, PhotoShop, and Flash, I also took one multimedia class where I learned Director. I recently downloaded TopStyle and am told that XML-spy is good.
With my position, it isn't always about being a decent designer/developer, being good with Microsoft PowerPoint and Adobe Acrobat can be of great help when others who knwo little about the software have to use it in a pinch, and the tech support person is away.
*Beginner Webdev alphabet: HTML, CSS, Javascript, maybe some PERL/CGI, a little UNIX. Our developers and designers (probably where you're aiming) know all that and more (Including PHP, and Oracle in some cases). They do seem to have degrees, so I can't exactly say it is easy to advance without one, but you might be able to get in the door. Hope something in here is useful,
MC
What are you interested in? In other words, what is your passion. If you're into physics and want to do web then why not combine those into your portfolio.
I develop shipment tracking apps for a shipping company in Minnesota. One thing that my employer is really hungry for is information services (web stuff) and heavy duty reporting. Trends, statistics, factoids, etc.
If you are interested in building sites for a pretty good salary, I would recommend getting some very strong basics in how dynamic pages function. Sites where you can take any bit of data from your employer's database and stick it right in his face any way he or she wants it. Keeping in mind that since your boss is going to use much of that to market the company, he is going to take this cool stuff that you've developed out of thin air and show it to every customer he can. Why would he do that? To differentiate his company from the competition and stick a big fat hook in the customer's mouth (sort of). What I mean is that they want those customers and potential customers to be reliant on them for the services they feature that the competition doesn't.
You would be surprised at how much competition DOESN'T have the ability to get information the their customers.
The whole thing for you to do is to differentiate YOURSELF from YOUR competition when you are looking for a job, but get the basic foundation of this technology down and build your empire upon that.
A few recommendations that might interest you and get you diving into good development with some sort of ease rather quickly. This would be in order of learning curve, easiest to hardest in my opinion.
1) ASP, IIS, VbScript, MsSql or even MsAccess for that matter (This will get you going)
2) XML, JavaScript (a little more complex)
3) Crystal Reports, dynamic PDFs
4) .NET Technology
WARNING: This industry is such a blast that you may not care to return to Physics...haha
Good luck...Dave
Thank you as well for your input. Congratulations on your baby as well. I love that I'll be a father.
I love physics, and I love creating as well. And I think it's because there's so many options, so many possibilities. That would be a great idea to try and incorporate my passions into a web site. I guess I try doing that to a degree; but then I have so many passions that I start on a new page, and another, and another, and .... etc... So I need to hunker down and get one site up to par at a time.
What do you mean by dynamic pages? Is there an example on the web? Or is it something you do while building, and then just choose one? What's IIS? Is MsSql like MySQL?
Sounds like good advice. I'm sure I'll always be interested in Physics... I have been my whole life. I'll just do that as a hobby. :)
Thanks again to everyone for your input.
-Mike
I would suggest PHP, MySQL, JavaScript, CSS, (X)HTML, XML, SSI, and Unix or Linux.
For software, TopStyle, Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash.
Also, I would suggest you get a different host for your site. Geocities is a very bad host. When an employer sees a geocities URL, it is kind of a turn off. It would probably even be worth the investment to get a domain name. They are only $6.95 USD a year at [web.com....]
Best regards,
Ryan
Basic Skill Set - Webmastery 101 [webmasterworld.com]
Webmaster Profession [webmasterworld.com]
At this point, I am a big fan of informal education for webmasters. Whenever I try to learn a new skill, I try to pick up a book on the authority on the topic. That way you are learning from the very best through tried and true techniques.
IMO, marketing is the most sought after and MVP skill at the moment in the web community. There are marketers and then there are MARKETERS, those who really know how to reach the target audience with an online presence and generate a core of repeat buyers.
James, I've heard of some kind of "Book Clubs" that will let you get technical books for cheaper prices. Know of any? What is "IMO"? Internet Marketing Oportunist? :D Thanks again to everyone for the help.
MsSql is Microsoft Sql Server (database server). Microsoft's answer to Oracle (another database). It's enterprise type software and really is good, but costly. There is a personal version of it too, but never used it.
MsAccess is Microsoft's semi-portable or personal database program that comes with MsOffice Suite. It works fine until you hit a few hundred thousand records and then things seem to slow down a little.
MySql is a Sql Server all itself. Don't quote me, but I heard that MySql does not support stored procedures or views, which will be of no importance to you at this point. It has a non-commercial version that is free and a commercial version, but I don't know the cost.
I believe that ASP can connect to MySql as well as it does to the others. It might be a good choice for you while getting started.
Heck, even writing to text files would help you get started and that's totally free.
If you're into trying ASP and want to get introduced to it you might pickup "Active Server Pages For Dummies , 2nd Edition" by IDG books. It will get you the basics in short order. Check it out and then move onto more detailed ASP books. DO NOT GET ASP.NET for DUMMIES! Asp.NET is a totally different technology that more resembles Windows desktop programming. It is the future, but you need to worry about the here and now. Remember...baby coming?
Nowawdays a decent ASP programmer can grab a starting income of between $45,000 and $65,000, which is pretty good starting pay. If you really work at it you could have the basic fundamentals down and making progress within a month. maybe the $65,000 is a little further out. Not too far if you keep at it though.
I personally think that ASP using VbScript (Visual Basic Script) is easier to get the hang of. VbScript is just like it sounds; BASIC. Like this...
A = 1 (A equals 1)
B = 2 (B equals 2)
C = A + B (C equals A plus B)
'result C = 3
Other syntax is like...
A <> 1 (A does not equal 1)
Easy eh? Just like in grade school.
Hope that helps...Dave
>book clubs
I have only seen one, a graphic design book club, forget the name though.
I get all my stuff through Half.com at killer prices or even more killer prices at the library.
I have created my personal webpage at netfirms. They allow you to have free website upto some memory limit. Your website name will be like: <some_name>.netfirms.com. So for example my site's name is: <snip> . Although I do not know much about internet technologies, my feeling is that the site is really good for learners. Once your site starts attracting good amount of traffic you can buy their paid service.
HTH -Bakulesh
PS: HTH is acronym for "hope this helps".
[edited by: JamesR at 9:00 pm (utc) on Sep. 29, 2003]
[edit reason] sorry, no personal URLs please [/edit]
Re formal education: It depends on where you want to get in life. If you just want to stay designing sites you probably can get by with fairly little, but your work experience had better show you have the skills. Lack of formal education though will limit your advancement opportunities.
People can easily forge a portfolio where the work was extensively done by others. An employer will not know reality until he hires the person. This is the danger of hiring someone with only work experience and nothing else. What does the employer do when he finds out the new hire cannot perform -- he just wasted his time, his money, and now must go look for someone else. Why waste any more money sending this guy to school when 1) he lied and 2) he shows no skill for learning above the high school level. I'm not saying everyone overinflates a portfolio beyond their skill sets, but a good percentage do. That's why many prefer hiring people who have a mixture of formal education and work experience. It's harder to fudge passing a course or getting a degree. It's very, very easy to display someone else's work in your portfolio. Certifications are good too in demonstrating a person has a certain technical knowledge level. However, many people cram for those and just like degrees they forget a lot of the info unless they regularly work with it. It's tough being on the hiring end because you have to figure out which of the candidates are presenting real credentials and which aren't.
There's a difference between a Web Designer, Web Developer, and Webmaster. Speaking in general terms, please don't flame :)
web designer specializes in - Front end stuff like Photoshop and other Graphic software, Dreamweaver, Frontpage. The look and feel.
web developers specialize in: BACK END stuff (or, the plumbing) like ASP, Java, JSP, PHP, Perl/CGI, Application Servers, Databases (whatever-SQL, although this overlaps with Database administrators).
Webmasters kinda have to know something about everything, but most webmasters are focussed on Search Engine Optimization.
In large companies, each of these roles is highly specialized but they all work together on projects, and the easiest way to get a job in a big company is to SPECIALIZE.
Java Java Java - If you want to get a job in a big company, learn Java, JSP, Enterprise Java Beans, Struts anything Java that you can get your hands on, plus SOAP and XML. Even more specialized is if you can learn about specific application servers like BEA Weblogic or IBM Websphere.
And also learn SQL (most databases work on SQL, so if you learn one kind you can pick up the rest quite easily). And then you're set to be highly specialized and highly paid desk jockey.
However, if you're focused on going into business for yourself, make no mistake, you will be filling ALL of these roles, and more. Since people usually just expect you to provide everything.
So I suggest basing your course choices on which road you want to go down.
You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I really hope things work out for you.
My formal degree opens a lot of doors, from looking at job ads-- but I was still unemployed for a long time after I graduated because I didn't have the real-world experience I needed just to know how to get a job. So a combination of academic learning and on-the-job learning will help.
My boyfriend's a software engineer who has most of a computer science major. He was told he was unemployable without the degree, but then three weeks later he got a job for $40,000 a year as a software engineer. Why? He had exactly the experience they needed, and when they asked for samples, he sent them high-quality, relevant work. (They said "a program in Objective C." He sent them a fairly sizable program that worked. The other applicants sent something in C Sharp, or simple Hello World programs.) They gave him a $10,000 a year raise after his first year and a half because they love him so much and he does such good work for them.
So, the degree isn't everything. Knowing *exactly* what is needed, helps a lot.
I was hired for a position I wasn't interested in and am now a severely underpaid webmaster, gaining skills exponentially, because I saw the need within the company and filled it. When I leave this job it won't be for another with a similar description and payscale. I know a lot now, a whole lot, and that makes the low pay easier to swallow.
But then, I have no family to support, so my concerns are different.
Just to let you know that you can get a free trial subscription at www.informit.com . They have many books to read on their online section. The trial is free, and lets you read 10 books.
