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i Love Frontpage

[coconut]

For all you web coders still stuck in the past using dreamweaver and the others why wont you all just accept that things have changed and smart high design tools have revolutionize web design meaning" web coding does'nt have to be hard and boring to master anymore; its just same as those still programming with C+ versus the new Ms virtual basic and java.
I mastered frontpage just 5 weeks after completing my web course and its been very rewarding; and for all you newbies out there reaching out for web design, frontpage is the way to go but of course you can opt for dreamweaver if you ready to waste months and years studying html codes.

[mack]

Front page and Dreamweaver are pretty much the same, you really don't need to write code for either. The debate over what software is better than the other will just keep on going. I have used both. Front page has it's benefits, Dreamweaver also has it's benefits. Both these tools are WYSIWYG editors (what you see is what you get) so you really dont have to know html code to use either.

The principle problem with both these products is they do tent to mess with the code, So knowing how to code by hand is an advantage when you want to clean up your pages.

Mack.

[katana_one]

I agree with mack. I have Frontpage installed at home, and Dreamweaver at work. They are both the same to me, and I actually do most of my coding in Notepad anyway. About the only time I use FP or DW is when I have to edit somebody else's overly complex nested-table-based layout.

[outrun]

its just same as those still programming with C+ versus the new Ms virtual basic and java.

Not a good comparision, C++, Visual Basic and JAVA have different strengths, weaknesses and more importantly purposes.

As regards to Frontpage and Dreamweaver the learning curves are more or less the same. Personally I began with Dreamweaver version 3.0 and as my knowledge grew there was no need for a WYSIWYG editor.

[Tomness]

I disagree with the topic at hand, because I used frontpage from 2003, 'til 2005, and only about a month ago, it occoured to me how heavy my site was. That's because frontpage adds a lot of useless code.

Sometimes when you make something bold, then change your mind, the tags remain.

<b></b>example

It happens with other tags too.

This builds up of course, and then you get a really heavy page.

The principle problem with both these products is they do tent to mess with the code, So knowing how to code by hand is an advantage when you want to clean up your pages.

I agree.

If you ever do what I did, and one day realize you want to convert your site to CSS, you're going to need to code manualy, which is why you should know html by hand.

When I cleaned up my site to convert it to html, it took ages, and lots of filing through useless code and deleting it.

[bill]

Sometimes when you make something bold, then change your mind, the tags remain.

I have never seen that happen. All you need to do is select the text and hit Ctrl+Shift+Z or from the menu, Format¦Remove Formatting and there are no tags left at all.

If you take the time to learn some of these nuances of the WYSIWYG then there really aren't any problems like the one you mentioned.

[Tomness]

I have never seen that happen. All you need to do is select the text and hit Ctrl+Shift+Z or from the menu, Format¦Remove Formatting and there are no tags left at all.

I never knew about that. I just used undo a lot. Perhaps because I never learnt the propperties of it to the maximum.

[mack]

why wont you all just accept that things have changed and smart high design tools have revolutionize web design meaning

This is the only part I really disagree with, it is true that you can save a lot of time my using an editor, but you also need to be prepared to compromise with what you want to acheive.

When using a wysiwyg editor you are not constrained with what you want to acheive, but with what the software will allow you to do. I dont think it's fare to say people who code by hand are living in the past, they simply want to create an exact page.

The Commens about c+, visial basic etc are a little bit of target also. I agree that you can create some pretty awsome application using VS.net. But try writting an application to compile on linux using VS. IN the server sector Linux is still king so there is great demand for gifted coders.

Mack.

[moverbay]

Front Page and Dreamweaver both have alot of the same qualities, however, I feel that Front Page adds too much extra code into the pages. But personnally I like doing the code myself, it keeps things cleaner and if you are using any php or asp then I prefer dreamweaver, or good ole notepad or HomeSite.

[richlowe]

What I like about Frontpage and Dreamweaver is they allow me to concentrate on content and not coding. Yes, I can and do hand-code pages, but on some sites I just want to get the content up and am not worried so much about bloat or whatever. These WYSIWYG editors allow me to do that.

[Tomness]

I dont think it's fare to say people who code by hand are living in the past, they simply want to create an exact page.

I agree, i've always seen it like that, but never actualy designed like that untill I realized the bennafits.

I just want to get the content up and am not worried so much about bloat or whatever.

Hand coding pages is a lot more precise and will more than likely take a tad longer, but the difference is usualy noticable and worth it.

[bill]

One could also argue that hand-coding is imprecise and prone to errors/typos. A WYSIWYG will give you the the exact same code every time.

[bedlam]

I mastered frontpage just 5 weeks after completing my web course and its been very rewarding; and for all you newbies out there reaching out for web design, frontpage is the way to go but of course you can opt for dreamweaver if you ready to waste months and years studying html codes.

Well first of all, taking a few months or even a few years to learn the skills required in a new profession doesn't strike me as unreasonable but even more than that, why on earth would you want to be completely dependent on a particular software package?

There are a few really good reasons for learning markup:

1. You'll be able to correct any mistakes, inconsistencies or sub optimal code that your wysiwyg editor produces,
   
2. You'll be able to work on pages with css layouts too complex for wysiwyg editors to display in 'visual' mode (I just did some work on a page on Monday for a client who usually does his own maintenance because Dreamweaver couldn't display the layout properly...)
   
3. You'll understand what markup means (and until you understand what markup is and what you're doing by marking up content, you will never be able to cope with advanced css or with the task of producing documents that are largely device-independent)
   
4. You'll have a much more difficult time dealing with the relatively common situation of having to interweave markup with php/asp etc (and for that matter, will very likely fall victim to the common practice of putting ten times as much markup and css into the program code as is really required...)
   

None of this should be taken as strong reasons not to learn and use FP or DW, but I think that they are good reasons not to rely on wysiwyg tools. I will not train coders on Dreamweaver until after they've learned to produce well marked-up documents by hand.

-B