Can I claim copyright on derived work?

[edaindia]

I had taken the content of another person (say a list of widgets and where to buy them) and
1. Cleaned up the formatting and content added a bit of my own and put it on my page

While I dont think I can claim copyright over the content in #1 can I do so for the additional work I did to make the content presentable?

2. Over time I have been independently updating it as and when new widgets are available or availability info for old widget has changed and now the page has changed by more than 50%.

After #2 can I now also claim copyright over the content?

[vincevincevince]

As there are still copyright elements remaining this needs to be acknowledged, but you should be able to include yourself in the copyright statement, clarifying which parts are copyright by which person to anyone who enquires.

[stapel]

"Derivative works" (which would include works unchanged but for formatting and other "neatening up") belong to the holder of the copyright on the original work. Unless you created the original work, you cannot (legitimately) claim the copyright to the derivative work.

Copyright.gov: Copyright Registration for Derivative Works [copyright.gov]
BitLaw: Rights Granted Under Copyright Law [bitlaw.com]
Answers.com: Derivative Work [answers.com]

Even if you have added content since your original plagiarism, it is still a derivative work, and you do not own the copyrights to it. Sorry.

Eliz.

P.S. Naturally, you'll want to consult with a copyright attorney to confirm the above.

[bobothecat]

After #2 can I now also claim copyright over the content?

Send in your registration and find out - the worst that could happen is that you'll be sued :)

[Syzygy]

[Wonders out loud...]

Not being an expert and thus unable to provide any advice whatsoever...

I'm thinking there's insufficient detail here. But... If the content is - as appears to be the case - a list, then there's every chance that this list is a compilation of stuff known to be facts. If it's not all fact based, then, by the sounds of things, certainly some of it is.

Possibly then, the derived work is based on something like names and addresses - distribution points for the widgets. A list of facts.

Updating a list of facts - even if compiled from an existing source - and then adding new content to it would create a 'new' work (unless it was the phone book). This new and original work would then be protected by copyright - surely?

Hmm - my head hurts...

[/Wonders out loud...]

Syzygy

[axgrindr]

I'm pretty sure that a list of facts cannot be copyrighted, that is the facts themselves cannot be copyrighted. The presentation of that list of facts can be though.
I would imagine you would be ok if you've created your own look and added/updated the list of facts.

P.S. Naturally, you'll want to consult with a copyright attorney to confirm the above.

[Harry]

axgrindr is right. In this scenario, a list of widgets cannot be copyrighted. Facts are facts and don't belong to people.

You can safely copy any list edit it and add your own facts without any problems. Just don't expect to have a copyright on this list!

[edaindia]

The list of widgets is a collection of information published by various widget manufacturers. for example say
Manufacturer A puts out an ad for blue priced at 20$
A month later B releases an Ad for green widget priced at 25$ and so on
the list would then contain
A,blue,20
B,green,25
c,yellow,10

Now if I take this existing list of 3 widgets and other such lists and my own list of 5 to 10 widgets. Mearge them. Then contact each manufacturer to get updated data on widgets not in the list of three items (soft/hard/fluffy, water soluble/insoluble, toxic/non-toxic, safe for children?/ dealers in various cities and updated information on color and price). Update the list accordingly and finally make the list presentable and host it in a web friendly manner.

What rights would I have on such a list?

Note:
Most of the information in my updated list would be available publicly in various format but distributed on various sites. The only value addition done by me is collecting it from various sites and different lists adding missing information and uploading it in a web presentable manner.

[edaindia]

My summary based on the discussion so far is
1. Need to acknowledge each source for different components of the list.
2. Since the content is a list of facts the content cannot be copyrighted. Nither the original list creators nor me hold any any rights over the content.
3. I can claim copyright over the look and feel of the list.

[Harry]

At this point I would say you're over reacting and too conscious of copyrights.

Worrying about copyrighting the look and feel of a list of facts is too much. Concentrate on nwriting good information instead. Life is too short.

[edaindia]

Harry I agree with you that worrying over copyrights for the look and feel of a list is not worth it. But the problem I am facing and which I had raised in thread [webmasterworld.com...] is that at various points others have taken the updated list from my site and pasted it verbatim (look, feel and content) on their websites and forgotten all about it. Some have replaced my name in the copyright notice with theirs while others have not even done so. And now with each new update to my content, The older outdated copies are rising to the surface and in case of some search engines have pushed my content on the second page. For example doing a search for "list of widgets" on google now results in my page at #1 and outdated copies of my page at #2 #3 and #4 respectively.

It seems that the websites with these older copies are no longer being maintained. So I wanted to know whether I could invoke my copyright on the look and feel of the content and other parts like writeup on how to find additional data etc. and get it removed.

[stapel]

If your "work" is just a listing of factual information, then, according to the previous posters, it is not copyrightable. Formatting ("look and feel") is also not copyrightable.

If there is anything in play here to which copyrights would apply, then, from my reading of your original post, the copyright for your derivative work belongs to the original author, not to you.

Eliz.

[Harry]

And like I said in the other thread, just write a new page with the new content and let the old one die on its own.

Facts are facts. Just like you copied them from another source, expect others to copy from you.