Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
The New York Times reports that Microsoft's new Internet browser includes a search box in the upper-right corner that is typically set up to send users to Microsoft's MSN search service. Google contends that this puts Microsoft in a position to unfairly grab Web traffic and advertising dollars from its competitors.
[money.cnn.com...]
google has too much for too little and for a pretty long time already
Also my bet is that MS now and in the future is generaly more friendly toward webmasters.
Wifi - cost=FREE
web analytics - cost=FREE
online shopping - cost=FREE
email - cost=FREE
there are probably a few more (just look for "beta") ;)
They are indeed calling the kettle black when they whine about abusing market share.
When Google hoisted BigDaddy on the world and dropped all of our very real content with the exception of the index page, our business plummeted (but is now fortunately rebounding).
Conversely, MSN and Yahoo have consistantly held our site in high regard with top ranking for every search term of importance to us.
In my clearly unbiased view :-) I would love to see Google's business do exactly as BD did to us... plummet!
Truly all Search engines suck today and in need to be fixed, none of them will be stable enough otherwise advertisement money will shrink, hence stock dropping and so on
Precisely!
We shall never again have good, honest search results while the search engines are driven commercially. Google's results were excellent until the lead up to their flotation.
We had a long discussion about this a few months ago in this thread, [webmasterworld.com...] in which I proposed a not for profit search engine. I still firmly believe that this is the only way forward. Google cannot clean up the results properly because to do so would have a serious effect on their long term profitablility via Adsense income.
Yet another IE security problem. Yeah, this is the company I want to knock off Google. They can't get one of their most important programs in order, how the hell are they going to get search right? I am begging Google to bring out their own OS and put an end to the MS madness. The less of a player Microsoft is on the internet, the safer we all will be.
I still remember using gopher search from a unix command prompt back in 1990 and was able to find what ever I wanted.
I have much better luck finding things on Google, probably because the Web has a lot more of the information I need than the gophers and ftp servers of 15 years ago did.
On the other hand, there wasn't any "search spam" in the gopher days--or, for that matter, before the Web was commercialized in 1995. The Mother Gopher had a much easier job than Grandma Google and Mama MSN Search do.
Now be fair, rjbearcan. It's not like Microsoft is the only one with security issues...
Macworld: SANS notes sharp increase in Mac OS X flaws [macworld.com]
A sharp increase in the number of flaws being discovered in Mac OS X suggests that the Apple operating system may soon be every bit as prone to malicious attacks as Windows systems, according to a report from the SANS Institute, a Bethesda, Md.-based security training and research firm.
PCWorld: Mozilla Readies Firefox Security Patch [pcworld.com]
The Firefox 1.5.0.3 update was scheduled to be delivered Friday, but it is now expected to be released "early [this] week," a Mozilla spokeswoman said. Developers have reduced the number of features in the update so that the security patch can be released more quickly, Mozilla said in a statement on the Mozilla.org Web site.
I think that Googles tactic of creating features such as desktop search and the Google pack is spot on. They just need to compete for space on the desktop to stay alive. Google office must be the way to go (as long as it is compatable with MS Office). If they start providing features like that for free so that we no longer need to buy the costly MS Office products, that would really hit MS in the wallet.
All in all, as far as I can tell, they are doing it right!
here is an example: Google is trying to take real estate and lodging from little guy and pass it over to new partners by placing a sub search before any of the organic results pointing to their own property listings. Try "Boston Real Estate" and you will see "Refine your search for boston real estate" followed by a mini search module. Now what is that?
By the way I'm not a realtor but I market real estate sites in few states, still doing good but some of my clients are so mad claiming that google is not being fair.
Also, did anyone else notice spaces.msn.com blogs get wiped out of the Google serp's?
Computers are not devices and most computer users don't know anything about the operating system they are using. The issue here is Google Vs MSN: Who is more Evil? A search engine is a search portal and not an ad venue. Once you mix pure searches with $$$ you get crap for a given result set.
But Google doesn't "mix pure searches with $$$." Ads and organic search results are separated, and their respective rankings are calculated independently of each other.
In a capitalist marketplace, search engines must earn revenues to survive. Until users are willing to pay subscription fees for the right to use Google, MSN Search, Yahoo Search, etc., the search engines have to sell advertising. It's that simple, and there's nothing "evil" about it.
How can google complain that microsoft have an unfair advantage when the first thing they do to a microsoft piece of software (IE) is take it over when you load up the tool bar.
Google pays FireFox and Opera to have Google search as default search engines. Shall I sue Google?
They simply built it into the OS and gave it away FREEYou call that competition?
Yes, it is competition; I call it competition.
You claimed it is not competition, not competition according to your definition of "competition".
The first flaw of your argument, obviously, is why you think your "competition" is good & right, the other "competition" is bad & wrong?
Secondly, Microsoft does not have any magical device ,i.e: money-making machine. M$ did all of your claimed "dirty" competitions on their own.
Want fair play? What a joke! Can you expect Saddam Hussein and G W Bush to have a one-to-one, WWE-like combat instead of a war?
What a joke!Google pays FireFox and Opera to have Google search as default search engines. Shall I sue Google?
Thanks for helping to prove my point:
Microsoft (which has a monopoly in PC operating systems, according to the U.S. court system) gets free placement for its search engine in the default Windows browser.
Google--and any other search engines that want browser placement--have to pay for equivalent treatment in browsers like Firefox or Opera.
Now, maybe you think this is okay. Maybe I think it's okay. (I don't have a strong opinion.) But it's naive to pretend that it's meaningless or "a joke" in the context of U.S. court rulings and Microsoft's history of pushing the antitrust envelope.
Microsoft (which has a monopoly in PC operating systems, according to the U.S. court system) gets free placement for its search engine in the default Windows browser.Google--and any other search engines that want browser placement--have to pay for equivalent treatment in browsers like Firefox or Opera.
Now, maybe you think this is okay. Maybe I think it's okay. (I don't have a strong opinion.) But it's naive to pretend that it's meaningless or "a joke" in the context of U.S. court rulings and Microsoft's history of pushing the antitrust envelope.
"monopoly in PC" Yes
"free placement" No
IE has been integrated with Windows for years. It is ridiculous and not applicable to order M$ to get rid of IE. Can you imagine Ford to discard their own eignines/transmissions and replace them with Honda's because Ford is a monopoly (well, it is not true)
Because IE is a part of Windows, IE gets its placement thanks to Windows market share. You cannot say windows gets free placement, can you?
[edited by: tntpower at 11:34 pm (utc) on May 2, 2006]
But Google doesn't "mix pure searches with $$$." Ads and organic search results are separated, and their respective rankings are calculated independently of each other.
What is the exact formulation? One can easily not link them programmatically and still test different result sets and see what algo set earns the most.
Nothing evil about it.
Still I doubt that there is no communication flow whatsoever between these two G programs. :\
I can't really believe there isn't some meeting and a simple information as to make the second search results page more irrelevant might bring more income as people then look more at the ads?
I don't have a particular moral stance on this, I just find it unlikely that people don't talk.
I mean it has been shown that scientists subconciously turn their experiments towards that what they want to find.
Google has been voted as the strongest brand last year or this and all this has been done with very little ad spend. They've been receiving some awesome PR.
So with all their PR, momentum and dominant position in the search engine wars, I hardly see them as the underdog.
This is going to one great battle MSN and Google in the search wars
Google has billions to spend, but Bill Gates (aka "Big Daddy Fat Pockets") is tough to beat, once he sets his sights on something.
His deep pockets didn't help him unseat AOL with the MSN online service.
MS and Google can set the default for their respective browsers.
That would be fair.
He didn't offer any money to AOL. But he made Google pony up one billion just to keep what it already had! LMAO!
Microsoft (which has a monopoly in PC operating systems, according to the U.S. court system) gets free placement for its search engine in the default Windows browser.
.. or more accurately.
Microsoft gets free placement for its own search engine in its own browser.
Who am I to argue with the U.S. court system but I don't see how the fact that that 95% of people use IE makes it a monopoly. There are dozens of alternative browsers, many of which are free.
See [en.wikipedia.org...]
How does the MSN search compare with Google?
How does the MSN search compare with Google?
just my 2 cents
steve
