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Supplemental club: Big Daddy coming - Part 1

W'sup with google?

   
6:43 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Carrying on from here:

[webmasterworld.com...]

and here

[webmasterworld.com...]

A lot of members are seeing huge sites going supplemental. One of our main sites lots all rankings and 200,000 + pages disappeared and now we are left with 19k useless results. This could be a goof or it could be a new round of penalties. If you have had your site reduced to the 'sup index lets here about it and compare notes.

3:26 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



One of our sites has had this happen, all 1500 or so pages moved to supplemental except the homepage which is pr 7 and well ranked still. All traffic has dropped for that site as well, man its times like this that make me glad to have 50 or so websites :)
3:28 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



For those whose sites have gone supplemental, it would be helpful if you also mention if this is accompanied by a drop in traffic

It's a huge drop!

3:30 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Eeeeeeeeeek, massive drop. Bizzare, what is this all about? Thank god for Yahoo amd MSN! Got every scraper, PDF copied version and straight stolen copy of our content sitting on 1st page and us nowhere to be seen.
4:27 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Here to:

1 site went down to 36 pages indexed (~400 pages on the site for real). Traffic is down about 40% for the day (60% drop since the beginning of the year, but some of that is expected and normal).

All supplemental (except the home page, which ranks as it has forever now). some of the pages google shows in the site: command have been deleted for over a year.

I also show urls like:

?source=kanoodle
?source=findwhat
?source=overture

that were only used for PPC campaigns in 2002 and 2003. Where is google pulling these urls from? It makes little or no sense.

5:16 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



I noticed something really interesting. Whereas the results for keyword terms I watch were showing for the past few weeks, 4 million plus returns...same search tonite returns 1,680,000. Before the BD dance returns were running about 2,450,000...all those supplementals seems to be really shrinking the index ...or the returns.
BTW..my google.com is 64.233.179.104 and seems to be a BD data center for now.
6:21 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



These are a few of my observations for my site at

Non BIGDADDY:

"site:" returns 3,77,000 results.

Major keyword:

Search Results returned: 14,700,000

"link:" returns 3,340 results.

"inurl:" returns 3,72,000 results.

BIGDADDY:

"site:" returns 2,88,000 results.

Major keyword:

Search Results returned: 51,800,000

"link:" returns 3,340 results.

"inurl:" returns 41,100 results.

The above drastic differences doesnt let us make any proper analysis of what is going around.
It seems a majority of the Google SERVERS have been severely hit by a virus and thus leaving all of us perplexed.
But again what proves everything wrong is we have not been losing significant traffic as of yet. But am not sure how long this will continue?

6:30 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have a question to ask: For those sites of yours that have been hit by Big Daddy's Supplemental, do you use RELATIVE or ABSOLUTE URL?
6:30 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



WOW! this kinda reminds me of what had happened to us about a year ago. LOL Just cross your fingers this is a temporary fluke.
6:31 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Someone mentioned to me that they saw their traffic drop and that's how they noticed the supplementals.

They also mentioned that many of the competitors in their niche also were tanking, which I thought sounded odd. Anyone else seeing something similar?

7:00 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



These are what I see from my sites on BD:
1. No supplementals for the new sites, less than a year old.

2. It seems my old site of 300 pages went to supplemental all except the home page. However, there are still about 30 pages without a supplemental label located at # 130 to ~ #160. This is not new since I have noticed them since the day I heard about BD.

3. I don't see any drop in referrals since most of supplemental pages have been deleted, 301 moved or un-updated for a long time.

7:24 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

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@sit2510

Relative Links.
On shared hosting.

Not hit by supplementals, but a entire DMOZ-listed directory is simply -- gone -- . Nowhere.
The Mozilla Googlebot does crawl the stuff, though. Daily.

[edited by: bull at 7:41 am (utc) on Mar. 3, 2006]

7:39 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Does Googlebot and Mozilla Googlebot make too much of a difference in the resulset.

Coz, i noticed BillyS post....

2,470 from Googlebot
3,010 from Mozilla Googlebot

if that is true then , i have to check the difference for my site too as coz' mozilla googlebot dont crawl my site.

Plz help

7:57 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



In answer to Martinibuster, my site going supplemental has been accompanied by a drop in traffic, currently around 30%, which appears to be growing as more BD datacentres are accessed.

The decline in traffic started barely noticeably on the 24th Feb and is slowly but surely getting worse.

It's scary :-(

8:05 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



yep...me too, all but the homepage are supplemental. As far as the traffic drop, well yeah, of course it's going to drop. None of the pages that are supplemental are showing up for their respective terms in the searches. My homepage shows up sometimes, but thats about it. 99% loss of traffic.
These guys are nuts....

btw..does google define phd as "post hole digger"?
they certainly can't mean a college degree

9:40 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



This is where GoogleGuy used to be at his most useful - a small word like things are still evolving would do the world of good.

I remember during the Dominic update there was a real horrible dc (and old data btw) and GG said there is no point concentrating on that dc and it relieved a lot of stress amongst some members.

It tends to be the sites with homepage canonical issues that have really been hit hard (yet again - thanks Google)

I notice that a competitor to WebmasterWorld (and it has been noticed on the other forum) - Seotalk (or something like talk - dirty word here?) has gone supplimental in Big Daddy.

Sites which tend not to have their homepage first in a site:www.domain.com check looks like they tend to be hit - to me this has always looked like Google has struggled to find the root of the site. Although still often in a site check the homepage is not first - it is intresting that it is the only page left in the index in a lot of cases (excl supplimentals)

9:50 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



just a note:

When using Google "define:" command my site is used to define most of the terms in my industry.( meaning they found my site useful & informative). This page is lost in the index too as well as all other pages beside the home page. How can I define terms for Google and get a penalty...I hope its just a bug!

Anybody here knows how the determine which site will be used to define terms?

9:58 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



A quick update, on BD 64.233.179.104 homepage good all other 3000-7000 pages supplemental as was earlier 2/2 now my default datacenter 72.14.207.104 (previously today all but home supplemental) its back to average, no supplementals in the first 1000 search results as expected. Supplemental in many of the BD referenced datacenters.

The main difference I have found is the cache date, for my site and others in the BD related datacenters those ranking and without significant supplemental issues all had cache dates of Feb 2006 mine and a couple of others with supplemental problems (only homepage ranking) on their homepage the cache date was in Feb 2006 the rest of the pages, all supplemental, showed cache dates of jun-aug 2005.

On my default DC I am fine my cache date ranges from feb 14-march 1 2006.

pages indexed should be about 3000-4000
default DC 9,340 down from 10,600 since about Oct or so not sure when the inflated number showed up
BD 7,710

Draw your own conclusions. I would love to hear what your conclusions are.

9:59 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Traffic was down 50% yesterday - day-to-day.

All but 2 pages still in supplemental.

edit: most of the cache dates are from July/August 2005

Moz Gbot still crawling about 40k pages a day.

I know what the Maytag repairman feels like. It was a pretty boring day - no orders, no customer service requests, no complaints and of course no $$.

[edited by: classifieds at 10:19 am (utc) on Mar. 3, 2006]

10:17 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



We have just been hit:

414 page site previously correctly indexed and high rankings.

Now:

Homepage only indexed plus 44 old page supplementals.

No traffic.

Matt Cutts please blog that an update/re-indexing will happen soon?

10:30 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"Sites which tend not to have their homepage first in a site:www.domain.com check looks like they tend to be hit - to me this has always looked like Google has struggled to find the root of the site. "

Welp I am in this club once again. It can't be that hard to understand our root for lord sake. Every thing is 301'd how he hell hard is that to get!?

This is quite similar to the last year hit we took. Pages went supplimental. Old cache dates appeared from month's before. Old deleted pages appeared back in the index. Pages started to disappear for no reason. Traffic tanked. Pagerank went down the tubes. We finally get pages back into the index and they go do something like this again...BAH.

I do hope they are working on something big this time and we all can come back to our former glory.

10:34 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



arubicus

Yes, but the point I am making is that Google do now know what the root is - it is the only page that is not supplimental!

Soooooo - either this is a penalty/problem.

or

hopefully Google will now realize that this is the root of the site and recrawl correctly from there.

10:35 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



yep my site still supp for 50% of the DCs

site 301 since 2002 with no probs

>> for people who have supps, are these pages dynamically generated or hard coded?

ALL my pages have some form of php that are gone, eg:

>> VB forum
>> header and footer includes

my HP which is just hard coded is OK

10:38 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



My homepage comes first in the site:www.domain.com check and I as far as I am aware I have no canonical issues with my site (www.domain.com and not domain.com is indexed and I have a 301 redirect from domain.com to www.domain.com in place).

However, my site is still all supplemental on BD apart from the homepage. This is killing me.

10:38 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



My "all supplemental" site is 100% hard coded.
10:38 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think we should examine why many pages have these problems now. One must keep in mind that it does not concern a lots of pages.
10:39 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"Yes, but the point I am making is that Google do now know what the root is - it is the only page that is not supplimental!"

For us this is also true and that is a good sign. But good lord it took them more than a year to figure that out! I just hope that this time it is the fix.

If they do know that it is the correct version then why is it still not in the first position and why are others here reporting that their site went supplimental when their root is in first?

10:55 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



It seems that I have the opposite effect, lot of sups in old DC's, and only 500 pages indexed. In BD all the pages indexed (+15000) and no sups.

Everytime a new DC is updated to BigDaddy, my stats show an increase of about 10% of visitors.

It seems that sitemaps are helping me to survive in BigDaddy. For the old DC's, sitemaps seems to not help at all...

11:17 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



My site went suppli"mental" yesterday, but google has been re hitting sections of the site very hard and crawling every page not missing a single thing.

May be a good sign, is there a way of seeing what dc the robot is crawling for? As my site does well on non BD dc's so if i could tell what dc the robot was from it could be confirmed as a glimmer of hope.

11:52 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



>> I know what we perceive the supplemental designation to be but has it ever been truly defined by google, gg or matt cutts? <<

Supplemental results are usually attached to an older version of a page. A page may appear as a normal result with a modern snippet when you search for words that are currently on the page.

If you search for words that used to be on the page, but are no longer in the current version, then the page can appear as a supplemental result. The cache shown will be modern, but the snippet will show the OLD content.

If the page URL no longer exists on the web (page gone, or whole site gone), then there will be only the supplemental result, and Google holds on to those for at least two years.

If the page still exists then Google will very often have both a normal result and a supplemental result for that page: and different keyword searches will bring either one or the other into view.

11:54 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yes, that pretty much sums it up.

At the end of the day a lot of sites seem to have just 1 page listed now in the normal Google search.

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