Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
Also, add more content pages; and make sure everything links back to your index page.
Nah. Site penalties don't manifest themselves by way of a minor PR drop. That would be too easy. ;-)
It could have absolutely noting to do with your site, or even any disappearing links to your site.
If the PR of a page that is linking to you drops, then they will be passing less PR to you. For example, if you have a link from a story in a newspaper, the first day that it is up, it can pass a lot of PR, as it is linked from their home page. A month later, that story is buried in their archives, and might be just a PR1 link.
If the PR of a page that is linking to you drops, then they will be passing less PR to you. For example, if you have a link from a story in a newspaper, the first day that it is up, it can pass a lot of PR, as it is linked from their home page. A month later, that story is buried in their archives, and might be just a PR1 link.
But I thought a site with a lower PR than yours linking to you wouldn't hurt you?
I agree with caveman. PR is a measure of links, that's it. Going back to the original paper about The Anatomy of a Large-Scale Hypertextual Web Search Engine, it is a measure of the likelihood of a random surfer finding a particular web page, that's it. If your PR goes down, that means that the importance of your backlinks (or the number of your backlinks) has gone down. It happens all the time. PR is dynamic, it's always changing. When one site loses PR, potentially hundreds of thousands of sites lose PR. Everything on the web is interconnected, like the butterfly effect.
Maybe I'm going out on a limb, and feel free to disagree with me, but in my opinion, either you are banned (gray bar, excluded from the index) or you are ranking poorly. Low PR is only the measure of links.
>>>But I thought a site with a lower PR than yours linking to you wouldn't hurt you?
The scenario mentioned is a news site with say a PR 6 linking to you from it's main page. But when that news page is archived (i.e. something like fictionalnewspaper.com/archives/july20-newsarticle.htm) then that page might be a PR 2. So, when it was initially posted it was a PR 6, but now it's a PR 2, passing along less PR.
I have one site that regulary bounces between PR5 and PR7, and is at PR6 most of the time.
That's rather kind of strange.
I mean switching between PR5 and PR6 could be understood, between 6 and 7 raises some eyebrowns as it should require a substantial change in IBL quantity and/or quality, at least according to the old rules.
But, between PR5 and PR7?
Either toolbar is totaly weird (I assume it is in the toolbar) or some other rules were introduced.
Some time later it went back down to a PR0 (again, traffic level was unchanged).
Did Google referals remained the same?
When one site loses PR, potentially hundreds of thousands of sites lose PR.
Yadda yadda yadda. <even MORE confused>. Then this goes against the "fact" that sites with lower PR can't hurt you. This is saying that if the sites to which I link lose PR, then mine goes down. If that is true, the other can't be true about sites with a lower PR NOT hurting you.
Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT disputing you, I'm just trying to learn this and understand it! ;) But, I seem to be hearing contradictory statements.
Everything on the web is interconnected, like the butterfly effect
The scenario mentioned is a news site with say a PR 6 linking to you from it's main page. But when that news page is archived (i.e. something like fictionalnewspaper.com/archives/july20-newsarticle.htm) then that page might be a PR 2. So, when it was initially posted it was a PR 6, but now it's a PR 2, passing along less PR.
Ok, so does this mean you originally got the "benefit" of a PR6 site, and now that the site is a PR2, then that doesn't affect you now in a negative manner?
Thanks. :)
When one site loses PR, potentially hundreds of thousands of sites lose PR.Yadda yadda yadda. <even MORE confused>. Then this goes against the "fact" that sites with lower PR can't hurt you. This is saying that if the sites to which I link lose PR, then mine goes down.
No, the original meaning is that if the site that linked to you lose PR your page/site will be affected too.
However, it is not that "hundreds of thousands of sites lose PR". More pages are linked - less PR is passed.
Regarding linking to the other sites and penalties, Google is very consistent about it (and here, I believe them): It is not who links to you, it is about where do YOU link to.
Now, redirection problems are another story.
And as martinibuster points out in this thread [webmasterworld.com] (in Supporters), the notion of a given site being penalized is far too often offered up as a (feeble) hypothesis for sites that simply are not built wisely or marketed well.
<Rant>
As for the other very basic questions about PR in this thread, members should take the time to read all the papers about PR, LocalRank, BlockRank, Hilltop and LSI. It's the people that don't do their homework that for the most part complain the loudest when changes in the SERP's knock out their sites.
Ever notice how few of the senior members in here winge about sites being lost. ;-) Why? Some of these people build site loss into their plans (usually the ones playing closer to the edge). Others don't often lose sites, because in addition to playing it more conservatively, they understand the papers, watch the SERP's over time, and draw inferences based on their knowledge of the various tools G and other SE's have at their disposal.
This is not to say that the SE's don't make mistakes or get it wrong; clearly they do. But that has always been true. Sometimes they mess up redirects or guess wrong on canonical pages. Sometimes they choose to accept some collateral damage to achieve certain goals. It's the business we're all in. My personal opinion is that the SE's are better now than they've ever been, but reasonable people may differ.
There are very few "facts" when it comes to what the SE's are doing. We don't know what the SE's are doing unless they tell us, which doesn't happen very often (unless you go to PubCon's ;-) ). It's almost all guesswork based on the reading of published papers, observation and research.
Nobody is 'telling' the most successful webmasters how to succeed. They are figuring it out for themselves...contributing bits and pieces of things they've learned along the way, and getting pieces back. Mostly though, it's based on hard work, and a lot of reading.
If you really want to get to the next level, stop complaining. Divert your energies to reading more and working on your site(s). It may sound like 'mom and apple pie' advice, but it's the way most of the best get to where they are.
</Rant>
Yadda yadda yadda. <even MORE confused>.
What was said was clear. Go back and reread it.
PR does affect ranking.
The PR of a page is determined by the pages that link to your page.
Links to your page from lower-PR pages still increase your page's PR.
Links from your page do not affect your PR. (though you can recycle it through links back to your page)
Having the PR of a page that links to your site go down, does not "hurt" your site. It just does not "help" it as much.
Toolbar PR is based on a scale used to represent the actual PR. This scale changes with the updates. Your real PR could remain unchanged, yet your toolbar PR can change.
Google removing the link to their copy of ODP from their home page caused a noticable change in the PR of many sites.
Depending on the source of your big links, and the current scale used on the toolbar, it is quite easy to have your PR jump around over a 2 PR range.
As caveman said, go read the docs, so you have at least a basic understanding.
The drop from PR3 to PR2 may simply be due to this. These days you have to keep working on improving your site just to stay still.
As far as getting filtered goes, any level PR site can trigger a filter and rank poorly while maintianing their (high) PR.
Note that toolbar PR lags the PR Google uses by many weeks - probably 2+ months. If you see a change on the toolbar PR it probably means your "real" PR dropped long ago.
When do you think will be the next PR update?
Friday the 13th at midnight...?
If I were you, I would stop communicating with that guy. If he dares to lie you, he would dare to use his skill in unethical way. That would cause you more harm than good.
PR does affect ranking.
Then there is:
No, the original meaning is that if the site that linked to you lose PR your page/site will be affected too.
and:
Having the PR of a page that links to your site go down, does not "hurt" your site. It just does not "help" it as much.
These sound like two different answers to me.
I can't get to that link given [webmasterworld.com...] , it's telling me to login and I'm already logged in! I log in, and the page goes to the forum homepage. Even if I could, I don't have time to read dozens or hundreds of pages. ;) (I'm in traction due to a spine problem).
All I need to know, is the following:
1. If someone with a PR0 site wants to exchange links with me, should I say "no"? Sites with a PR0 with whom I currently exchange links--should I delete their links?
2. If one or more of the sites to which I exchange links, goes from a PRx to PR-x (drops 1 or more places), should I remove their link?
Thanks.
For about four days now.. I had 5 different sites that had a PR of 7 or better link to my PR 4 site.. My PR still hasn't increased..does it have to wait for the Google Dance to increase...the once a month thing or shouldn't it be automatic? I remember when PR first came out , I would see results almost instantly when I linked one site to another.
Mike, I would think it's going to take a lot more than a few days to see any difference (unless your timing is lucky and you catch G right before an update at the perfect time), plus a lot more than 5 sites.
I'm in traction...
Even if I could, I don't have time to read dozens or hundreds of pages....
There are a ton of helpful people in here ... but there aren't too many who are willing to help those who can't be bothered to read hundreds of pages. That's not even the length of a short book. All the papers you need to read can be read in less than a day. Add in the ancillary papers it's still less than two days, all in.
Sheesh.
Capeesh?
By ranking do you mean the SERP's?
Yes.
How is this possible when I'm hearing that PR has nothing to do with SERP's?
Then you are listening to the wrong people or not understanding what they say.
These sound like two different answers to me.
Yes, they are two different answers, but they are not conflicting answers. In fact they are in agreement.
If you have a PR6 incoming link, and that page drops to a PR2, that is still better than if that link never existed. A PR6 page that drops to a PR2 is still helping you. Therefore, while your PR will drop, it is still better than if that link was never there.
1. If someone with a PR0 site wants to exchange links with me, should I say "no"?
That is up to you, and what your risk tolerance is. We can't tell you what to do.
What I would recommend is that you learn to figure out if a site is possibly penalized, instead of relying on somthing like toolbar PR.
Personally, I link to sites that *are* penalized with no problems, because I need to link to those sites, and I know how to manage the risk.
Sites with a PR0 with whom I currently exchange links--should I delete their links?
Why would you? Just because someone on WW tells you to?
If you exchanged links with them, are you going to at least contact them before backing out on your deal?
If one or more of the sites to which I exchange links, goes from a PRx to PR-x (drops 1 or more places), should I remove their link?
Absolutely. Not only that, but remove links to any of your internal pages that lose PR at any point. If Google sees you linking to any page that loses toolbar PR, they are sure to ban you. Even if those pages are on your own site.
Mike, I would think it's going to take a lot more than a few days to see any difference (unless your timing is lucky and you catch G right before an update at the perfect time), plus a lot more than 5 sites.
Isnt it generally once a month. the update?
If Google sees you linking to any page that loses toolbar PR, they are sure to ban you.
BigDave,
I don't understand what you're saying here. Do you mean pages that loose toolbar PR completely, i.e., PR0 or greyed out, because they have incurred a penalty? Or do you mean pages that have just dropped a notch? E.g., a PR4 page that has become a PR3?
What I was saying there was to turn on your brain, read the documents, and then read every post critically.
The idea to drop your links to any page that drops a point in toolbar PR was so ludicrous, that it deserved a ludicrous reply.
I highly recommend against dropping *any* links to useful sites because of what the toolbar tells you.
On the other hand, if Clint is going to be living in fear of what might happen to him if he links to pages with changing PR, he should drop all links, even to other pages on his own site, just in case any of them lose some PR.
