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Sandbox Question and SEO for Google

Will a new website be sandboxed

     
2:52 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

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i was told by a person who claims to be a SEO that if i have a new website, i must not get into link exchange and should only look up for one way links.

He said the reason being, my website will be sandboxed by google in case i get into reciprocal linking.

I think one way linking will be difficult and even will cost me lot more compared to reciprocals.

Please help me with the situation.

thanks
Sachin

3:39 pm on June 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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because i have many old domains that link one way to the new domains:)

Are you sure that it's enough to avoid the sb?

I have a score of old domains and concentrate PR with one-way linking from less important to more important, so my main domain is crawled many times a day and helps every page I link from it (however it don't link to many pages).

My latest domains are always linked to from old, high PR domains, this is actually a way I make them included in Google. I'm sure most WW members do the same.

Are you saying that this can bypass the sandbox? I'm not so sure about it. It's too easy and who doesn't do this?

Or is it a matter of the number of these old domains? How many do you use?

5:58 pm on June 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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There is so much confusion as to when a new website will be released from this so called google sandbox. So far I have heard any where from as little as 3 months up to 14 months.

It does appear that every new website is indeed placed in a sandbox for a period of some time.

My question is this.

When google decides to let you out of the sandbox are the rewards and benefits greater in regards to ranking and traffic?

Or are the results expected to behave just like before the sandbox was ever invented?

I am guessing there has to be a greater reward to have to wait so long for any kind of results.

Has anybody have any facts as to how well they did after they got out of the sandbox?

6:15 pm on June 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Hello JoeHouse,

As I have explained in another thread, according to my own experience, the sandbox effect is not applied to ALL the websites.

Has anybody have any facts as to how well they did after they got out of the sandbox?

A website developed early 2005, ranked on the top-500 among 900,000 for its 2 main keywords within the first month. Then, it moved to the top-200 in late February. Then it moved to the top-20 in March 2005. Then it moved to #4 in May 2005 and NOW it is sitting on #1.

The site has gained few but high-quality one-way links and has 3 DMOZ listings already. The home page has PR3 while many internal pages have PR4 and PR5. My guess is that it will probably move to PR6 after the next PR update.

Best wishes,
Aris

6:43 pm on June 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I'd guess the DMOZ is a key, so I can believe this. Soon I'll check this out myself.
7:17 pm on June 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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For all the info I ever got from WebmasterWorld I may finally have something of substance to contribute.

The other day I noticed that my new website (1 month old) which is in the sand by the neck ranks OK (39 out of 800,000) for 2 semi competitive money making phrases. After a short investigation I concluded that it is because all AdWords publishers in my field have overlooked these phrases (including big E that seem to sell everything and everyone)! It appears that if at least one AdWords add is shown for the phrase my sandboxed site cannot rank for it at all.

Steps to replicate:
1) Pick a 2-3 consecutive word combination from your title.
2) Do a search in google.
3) If no AdWords shown start looking for your site.

I also found a 2 word phrase (non money maker though) that ranks me at 150 out of 9,500,000 results.

If my theory is correct it should be rather easy to verify.
My apologies if Iím not the first one who made such observation.

8:30 pm on June 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"I'd guess the DMOZ is a key, so I can believe this"

It's one of the keys of getting into the sandbox not out (though you may get out after nine months rather than twelve). New domains getting high quality links are a death sentence to a site these days, in the "short" (nine months...) term.

Either build a site for the long term, or get trash links to get out of the sandbox sooner but give yourself a low quality domain in the long run.

9:34 pm on June 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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It's one of the keys of getting into the sandbox not out...

New domains getting high quality links are a death sentence to a site these days...

...or get trash links to get out of the sandbox sooner...

steveb, according to your statements, there are two options:

1. All the people here that note the sandbox effect does not hurt ALL the websites and the timeframe is not standard (according to their own real experience), are just lying (including myself)...

2. You have some mystery proofs for your statements that you don't want to share with the other Webmasterworld members.

I invite you to analyze your statements a little more, as they may cause confusion to some members here.

Thank you

10:27 pm on June 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Stop talking about ALL. Don't people ever get sick of the silly idea that EVERYTHING is subject to ONE BIG THING that is applyed universally without fail in a perfect fashion. Google tries to do lots of things (find a canonical page is one example). Usually it succeeds, sometimes it fails.
10:49 pm on June 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Thank you for the detailed feedback regarding your recent statements...

DMOZ listing... It's one of the keys of getting into the sandbox not out...

New domains getting high quality links are a death sentence to a site these days...

...or get trash links to get out of the sandbox sooner...

According to my own experience with several domains I manage, sandbox is applied to most of the sites but IMO there are several additional factors that trigger substantially its effect; sometimes even to zero. This is what I would be very interested to discuss and find out.

i.e. DMOZ could be one of these factors that minimize the sandbox effect (or maximize it according to your statement!).

PS. According to my poor English and your last post about ALL, I assume you think that some sites have avoided sandbox accidentally because sometimes Google fails. Please correct me if I understood wrong.

5:04 pm on June 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I can definately assure you that not every new site goes through the called sandbox, I launched an adult site 3 months ago optimized for comptetive keywords, the pages were indexed 2 weeks after because of a good internal linking structure and the rankings were improving day after day, It was in the G dance I might say, but this last week most of my pages are ranking good, well among the top 30, so I am twisting them to get to the first spot, sandbox is no god rule, don't rouch getting backlinks, get quality ones, update your pages, keep adding more, good internal linking structure, everything should be fine
10:06 pm on June 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I launched an adult site 3 months ago...

Newly registered or an existing domain?

2:25 pm on June 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

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it was newly registered
2:58 pm on June 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I have been hearing from reliable sources regarding the sandbox is yes indeed your new website will be in sb anywhere from 4 to 8 months.

The interesting thing is that the major change is that links that are coming in will be on delay from the point when your site is release out of the sandbox.

For example: If you have a website that lets say was first notice by google on June 1st 2005.

Of course your site will be in the sb, however links that you obtain from June 1 2005 to next big spider event, lets say June 30th 2005. These links will be captured and recorded as backlinks. The only difference is that it will not be released or given credit as backlinks until out of sandbox. Except for insufficent keywords that leak out and do not rank very well on Google. These will be the only type of results you will see for a while on Google.

Then lets say google decides to let your site loose out of the sandbox on Jan 01 2006. The inbound links you obtained from June 1st 2005 to June 30th 2005 will then start to appear.

From that point the next big update by Google lets say Feb 1st 2006 will include inbound links obtained during the month of July 1st 2005 to July 31st 2005. Get the idea?

For every new update by Google it will include your delayed links from the point you were let out of the box.

This new format prevents people from spamming and the building of additional sites to create link popularity on main site etc.....and in general to ensure that your site you have submitted is for the good of its intended audience.

So in conclusion continue to work hard at what you are doing, stay the course, and you should get good solid concrete results within 18 - 24 months.

Why so long? Think about it for a minute.

The days of quick fix,fast results and consistent good ranking serp results appears to be a thing of the past with Google.

Instead what Google has created is a more of a slow and steady wins the race approach. You will still achieve what you are looking to do, the only difference is instead of success in 6 to 12 months, successful long lasting results will start to happen in 18 to 24 months.

The combination of the sandbox and the delayed backlink results has created an environment in which what use to be accomplihed in 6 to 12 months now takes 18 - 24 months. This was done by design to try and create a more relevant consumer friendly top notch search engine.

I think what Google is trying to tell us all is if you are serious about what you do and are looking to be in it for the long run, you will be fine.

11:20 am on June 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I have been hearing from reliable sources regarding the sandbox is yes indeed your new website will be in sb anywhere from 4 to 8 months.

Let's say Michael Jackson decides to register a new domain name mytrial.com and publish his views about the trial (if allowed).
Many sites would reference it almost immediately and he would get a lot of quality links in very short period of time.

So, you sb hard supporters think that mytrial.com would be put into the Sandbox for a few months and would not be on the top of serps for say "Michael Jackson's trial"?

Nope, I don't think so. The key here IMO are NATURAL links and that's what it is all about. No sandbox.

2:26 pm on June 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"NATURAL LINKS" Nope tried that still in sb. In fact quickest way to get into sandbox is to get natural links!

Of course we all need them and they are important but no escaping sb natural links or not period!

Only exception is the guy who starts a website selling lets say magic flying horse shoes for cows. Which of course has no competitors and as result in serps quickly.

5:03 pm on June 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

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tried that still in sb

You can't try to get natural links.
You either get them for free or not at all.

5:54 pm on June 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Yea I know that's what I am talking about natural links. Results still the same!
7:46 pm on June 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"The key here IMO are NATURAL links and that's what it is all about."

And natural links get you in the sandbox. That is the point.

mytrial.com would get a massive amount of high quality and low quality links, which would likely get it in the sandbox, although all those terrible quality links from every ranting blog in the world might overpower the good links and get the site ranking for awhile.

9:47 pm on June 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

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And natural links get you in the sandbox. That is the point.

OK, I have to make it a bit broader: The natural links from reliable souces. Reliable is what Google thinks it is.

I have to say that I have never seen a relatively new domain/site having QUALITY ibl "sandboxed".

10:17 pm on June 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"I have to say that I have never seen a relatively new domain/site having QUALITY ibl "sandboxed"."

I don't know what that sentence means, but every new domain I see that gets quality links gets sandboxed. Some may not because there are exceptions to everything, but the only sites that avoid the sandbox have no quality links and thousands of low quality ones. These end up ranking well in the serps for a few days to a few weeks.

11:21 pm on June 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I don't know what that sentence means...

It means that I never saw a new site being so-called sandboxed, if the site had really quality incoming links.
I could find many examples, try to keep eye on this one: "live 8"; among 112 millions results on the first place is the new charity project. It deserves to be there.
Catch? Registered a month ago.
Exception? There are no exceptions in an automated way.
Will it stay on top? Tell me when it goes out of the first page.
12:22 am on June 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"There are no exceptions in an automated way."

Of course there are. Google tries to do things all the time, and some sites slip through. Some of the folks here have businesses based only on that.

Please don't post specifics. It violates the forum charter. (The example though is one where the site got 30k+ links quickly, most very low quality, but also many good quality ones... for a term that basically never existed before.)

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