Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 18.206.48.142

Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi

Message Too Old, No Replies

My homepage is PR3, and other pages are PR4-6?

Can anyone explain how this is possible?

     
6:33 pm on Apr 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Apr 18, 2003
posts:699
votes: 0


After the recent PR update, my homepage is still a PR 3/4 and ALL of my other pages are PR 4-6.

The first thing I notice is if I access mydomain.com it is a PR 3. If I go to mydomain.com/index.html it is PR4. What's up with that?

Also, every page of my site links to every other page on the site (it's a relatively small site) and 99% of my incoming links are to my home page, so how can my home page have a lower PR than most/all of my other pages?

Oh and one more question. In terms of passing pagerank within my site, does it matter if I use relative URLs such as /whatever.html in the link or is it always better to use the full mydomain.com/whatever.html in links?

6:58 pm on Apr 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 1, 2005
posts:741
votes: 0


After the recent PR update, my homepage is still a PR 3/4 and ALL of my other pages are PR 4-6.
The first thing I notice is if I access mydomain.com it is a PR 3. If I go to mydomain.com/index.html it is PR4. What's up with that?

This is one of the most discussed problems with PR.The fact is that "mydomain.com/index.htm" is recognized as a different url respect to "mydomain.com",so SEs allocate PR for each one as separate domains.
You could solve this situation by permanently redirecting the first on the second and making your inbound links only on the second.

Also, every page of my site links to every other page on the site (it's a relatively small site) and 99% of my incoming links are to my home page, so how can my home page have a lower PR than most/all of my other pages?

This could depend on inbound links that you're not aware.We cannot control if someone somewhere decide to link us.
Otherwise it could depend on your internal links structure:PR is a vote expressed from a page A to a page B ;if the vote is expressed by more pages, PR of the page B could be bigger.If you want more PR to the Home, link it as a "hub" to the other pages and vice-versa.

Oh and one more question. In terms of passing pagerank within my site, does it matter if I use relative URLs such as /whatever.html in the link or is it always better to use the full mydomain.com/whatever.html in links?

It doesn't matter.

7:54 pm on Apr 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Apr 18, 2003
posts:699
votes: 0


This is one of the most discussed problems with PR.The fact is that "mydomain.com/index.htm" is recognized as a different url respect to "mydomain.com",so SEs allocate PR for each one as separate domains.

Wow I would have never guessed. That makes no sense - what is the general consensus as to why they do this? Search engines know that 99.99% of the time mydomain.com and mydomain.com/index.html lead to the same page so why would they treat them separately?

I just realized that some of my pages link back to my home page using the relative URL of /index.html. If you're saying the SEs treat domain.com and domain.com/index.html separately that would help explain why my domain.com/index.html has a higher PR than domain.com, right?

But I'm not sure I understand your proposed solution. Can you redirect domain.com to domain.com/index.html? - they are the same aren't they?

Also, I don't see many people having their inbound links going to domain.com/index.html. Even the savvy and aggressive link hunters I "spy" on have their links just going to theirdomain.com.

This could depend on inbound links that you're not aware.We cannot control if someone somewhere decide to link us.

But I can check backlinks for all the popular pages at my site and see that 99% of my incoming links are to my homepage ... right?

Otherwise it could depend on your internal links structure

Currently all pages link to every other page, so that can't be it either.

I'm going to start messing with one way links within my site i.e. my home page linking to only certain pages but all pages linking back to home etc, dynamic linking to not "waste" PR on silly pages like privay policy and contact us, etc. but I haven't started doing any of this yet. If all pages link to all other pages I just don't see how this is happening ...

Let me ask another related question. Does an image link pass less (or no) PR versus a text link? Both are static <a href ... type links, the only difference is one has regular anchor text and the other is an image link.

I assume in terms of passing PR they would be the same, although obviously in terms of link "reputation" etc. an image link is pretty much useless (although maybe the alt text is considered somewhat?)

8:51 pm on Apr 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 1, 2005
posts:741
votes: 0


Search engines know that 99.99% of the time mydomain.com and mydomain.com/index.html lead to the same page so why would they treat them separately?

This is not completely true.The fact is that under the url "mydomain.com" it could be a subdomain instead of your "index" page,you see?

That's the reason because SE recognize "mydomain.com","www.mydomain.com" ,"mydomain.com/index.html" and "www.mydomain.com/index.html" as separate domains.

I just realized that some of my pages link back to my home page using the relative URL of /index.html. If you're saying the SEs treat domain.com and domain.com/index.html separately that would help explain why my domain.com/index.html has a higher PR than domain.com, right?

Right.

But I'm not sure I understand your proposed solution. Can you redirect domain.com to domain.com/index.html? - they are the same aren't they?

No.They aren't the same.You only should put a 301 command on your server;done.

Also, I don't see many people having their inbound links going to domain.com/index.html. Even the savvy and aggressive link hunters I "spy" on have their links just going to theirdomain.com.

That depends on the link;If you make a links exchange providing the correct url to your "partner" it will link on the "index.html".If someone decide autonomously to link your site then he will link on the "domain.com".
It's just in this case that redirection (permanent) command does its work driving the link/s on the right address.

Keep in mind that I suggested to redirect "domain.com" on "index.html" but you could do the contrary,as it seems better for you of course.


But I can check backlinks for all the popular pages at my site and see that 99% of my incoming links are to my homepage ... right?

Right.

Currently all pages link to every other page, so that can't be it either.
I'm going to start messing with one way links within my site i.e. my home page linking to only certain pages but all pages linking back to home etc, dynamic linking to not "waste" PR on silly pages like privay policy and contact us, etc. but I haven't started doing any of this yet. If all pages link to all other pages I just don't see how this is happening ...

There are two consideration to do:

1)It could be that some of your internal links don't work properly.Have you consulted the log file?
You could verify easily if SEs recognize regularly all the links as you created.

2)It could be that your home page has outbound links,spreading so externally a part of the page PR.

Let me ask another related question. Does an image link pass less (or no) PR versus a text link? Both are static <a href ... type links, the only difference is one has regular anchor text and the other is an image link.
I assume in terms of passing PR they would be the same, although obviously in terms of link "reputation" etc. an image link is pretty much useless (although maybe the alt text is considered somewhat?).

Right.There isn't difference as regard to the "passed" PR quote.The fact is that image links are less "search engine friendly" comparison to the textual links and they could (I say it could) be recognized as "broken links";using keywords in the ALT text could improve their "authority" but not more than optimizing a common textual link (it would be better to use both if it is possible).

In a general way,you have to concentrate your efforts on the url you're interested in and modify your internal link structure as it is better for you.Remember that PR follows your links path:So if your links point all to a specific page,it will benefit of a sum of rankings;if they point to all the pages they spread PR in the whole sites diluiting it.

9:54 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 27, 2004
posts:204
votes: 0


I am facing the same issue with a site that went online in late December 2004. It has already attracted a small but high-quality amount of links and is already listed on ODP. The pagerank shown on Google Directory is already 5 but the Google toolbar shows just 3 with internal pages 4 and 5.

There is absolutely nothing strange in the structure of the internal links as I have used the same structure in 20+ other websites without having any such problems.

I think it must be a problem with Google Toolbar itself as the real pagerank of the domain must be a medium 5.

Your feedback on this strange issue is more than welcomed.

Thank you

10:32 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member kaled is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 2, 2003
posts:3710
votes: 0


Google may recognise www.domain.com as being equal to domain.com.

Google will recognised .../dir/index.html as being equal to .../dir/

I am not aware of a definitive list of page names that are treated as default pages, but several page names are.

Kaled.

10:33 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 13, 2004
posts:1425
votes: 0


We can argue long and hard about different URLs treated differently.

Here's what I do, and think others should do:

1) Decide whether you prefer www.domain.com or just plain domain.com.
2) Be CONSISTENT. Decide on one or the other. I prefer WITH the www.
3) Be sure to add the trailing slash as in www.domain.com/
4) Make a permanent 301 redirect from the non-preferred URL to the preferred one.
This goes into your .htaccess file, and always with the trailing slash
5) Place links back to home page on ALL internal pages, WITH the slash
7) Encourage, wheedle and beg incoming links to do the same.

Its OK if some incoming links point to internal pages, that's a better
more natural mix. I'm sure others can add to this list. - Larry

10:54 pm on Apr 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 27, 2004
posts:204
votes: 0


Thanks for the feedback. Let me just confirm that ALL the inbound and internal links link to the same www.domain.com (I never use slash on my sites and I had no problem until now).

Any other causes for this strange issue, except mixed URLs?

Thank you

7:23 pm on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 1, 2005
posts:741
votes: 0


Hi Aris1970,

In your case the think seems to be a bit different: You've a different PR between your page and Google directory:

Nothing strange.
As already explained,Google toolbar shows the PR of the current viewed page.It's a sort of "individual" value that is allocated to each page.
Google directory instead,shows the PR of the whole site,and is updated differently respect to the individual one.

Here it is the explaination.

7:58 pm on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:June 20, 2002
posts:4652
votes: 0


The Directory has nothing to do with "site" PR. Zero. There is no such thing.

limitup, your first problem is the index.html issue. Besides that, relative links are bad for everything including PR, since any links that go to a page in the non-www loop could be tracked separately from those that go to the www-loop.

8:06 pm on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 27, 2004
posts:204
votes: 0


Thanks for the feedback. I think that G directory PR shows the PR of the home page. Maybe I am still missing something but it's the first time it ever happens to me, to have a pr4 or pr5 subpages and the toolbar pr on home page to be 3. Please note also that the home page is the one that is presented on SERPs for all the main keywords phrases, so there is no penalty of the home page for sure.

I strongly believe that it's a bug of toolbar since the site (the home page indeed) is already on top10 results of Google for its main 2 keywords (all the other top results have PR>4).

Strange, don't you think?

8:31 pm on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 15, 2005
posts:380
votes: 0


The fact is that "mydomain.com/index.htm" is recognized as a different url respect to "mydomain.com"

That's new: it used to treat / and /index.html and /index.htm as the same url. Now, it would be a risk of getting duplicate content penalty!

Google may recognise www.domain.com as being equal to domain.com

Could you tell me when is it possible, instead of the situation where you put 301 from one to another?

8:47 pm on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Mar 12, 2004
posts:514
votes: 25


Are you guys sure this is the reason? I've long been careful with how I link to my home page. I've been getting the same thing after the last update.

Also there have been a load of posts on lots of forums about this issue. Only after this last PR update - I don't remember this sort of post after any update over the last couple of years.

My theory: Google's smart PR. Those of you that do adsense will know what I mean.

9:43 pm on Apr 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:June 20, 2002
posts:4652
votes: 0


There were threads about this the last two PR updates, lots for the January one... but those all (I think) mentioned new sites.
11:45 am on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 1, 2005
posts:741
votes: 0


The Directory has nothing to do with "site" PR. Zero. There is no such thing.

Learn more about Google before you speak...

Nothing strange in different PR between Directory and individual page,Aris1970.
As regard the PR shown in the Directory ,to be accurate ,Google calculates an overall PR on the whole site;is that the PR you see,not the Home page PR.

12:14 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 27, 2004
posts:204
votes: 0


Nothing strange in different PR between Directory and individual page,Aris1970.

Dear specter, I didn't mean that for strange (I know this already) but all the other notes I made :)

... to have a pr4 or pr5 subpages and the toolbar pr on home page to be 3. Please note also that the home page is the one that is presented on SERPs for all the main keywords phrases, so there is no penalty of the home page for sure.
I strongly believe that it's a bug of toolbar since the site (the home page indeed) is already on top10 results of Google for its main 2 keywords (all the other top results have PR>4).

Maybe it's a bug or has to do with the sandbox effect (?) for new websites... don't know for sure.

Thanks all for your feedback.

12:46 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 27, 2001
posts:1186
votes: 16


Learn more about Google before you speak...
<snip>
As regard the PR shown in the Directory ,to be accurate ,Google calculates an overall PR on the whole site;is that the PR you see,not the Home page PR.

Even a cursory search of the Google Directory would show that idea to be completely wrong. Please be more polite to people called Steve...

4:18 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 1, 2005
posts:741
votes: 0


Sorry to disappoint you Stever,

But you also have to learn more on Google before to speak.
Maybe if you read this you will notice that is not only an opinion of mine
[#*$!.net...]

As regard to Aris1970:

Check your internal link and be sure that all work well.
Replace image links (if there are) with text links.
Check that you haven't outbound links on the page with lower PR.
Review the structure of your internal links.

Than,you could think to a bug.

4:55 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 27, 2001
posts:1186
votes: 16


specter, go and look for a site which has plenty of Google Directory listings, I dunno, maybe something to do with weather or maps.

Then do a search like this:
site:directory.google.com whicheverweatherormaporhoteldirectorysiteyouchoose

And then look at the cache of the directory pages and see if the Directory green bars are all the same. And if they aren't, then what you said is wrong. I did you the courtesy of checking before I posted, they weren't, QED.

7:03 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:June 20, 2002
posts:4652
votes: 0


"Google calculates an overall PR on the whole site"

Total nonsense. At least look at the Directory before making such plainly wrong statements.

Just fyi, there are thousands of sites with multiple Directory listings. The PAGES all show different PR because the PR display is obviously page based.

8:54 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 27, 2004
posts:204
votes: 0


Check your internal link and be sure that all work well.
Replace image links (if there are) with text links.
Check that you haven't outbound links on the page with lower PR.
Review the structure of your internal links.

Thanks. The site was already developed with all these under consideration, so this is not the reason. I think towards the new site effect as calling it a bug would be too much :)

I agree with Steveb regarding the PR based on page and not site. I have several sites with multiple listings on Google Directory (ODP in fact) and the PR shown is the one of each page.

9:10 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member from CH 

10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 10, 2004
posts:429
votes: 0


I 301 from [site...] to [site...] but most of the sites that link to me don't use the trailing slash.....I didn't know this was so important?

I've noticed that my homepage is pr 5 whilst many internal pages are pr 6 (with one pr7)...Also none of my internal links to the homepage have a trailing slash.

Looks like it's back to the drawing board for me.

1:12 am on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from GB 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 7, 2003
posts:789
votes: 2


So to achieve all that - will the following code work?

I want to:
a) redirect non www. to www.
b) redirect /index.htm to www.yourdomain.com/
c) redirect /index.html to www.yourdomain.com/

RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^yourdomain.com$
RewriteRule ^(.+) [yourdomain.com...] [L,R=301]

RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^yourdomain.com/index.htm$
RewriteRule ^(.+) [yourdomain.com...] [L,R=301]

RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^yourdomain.com/index.html$
RewriteRule ^(.+) [yourdomain.com...] [L,R=301]

4:23 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 1, 2005
posts:741
votes: 0


Asregard to the Directory and page PR,maybe I have to clearify some things,just to be accurate:

Google attributes a Page Rank to each page of a web site based upon a complex algo calculations.This PR could be intended as a "vote" expressed from a page that links another page,passing to it a quote of its own PR .This value is the one shown in the Google toolbar,and we agree on the fact that it is page based,OK?

Over that, Google attributes an overall PR to the whole site as you can view in a list such as the following:

[directory.google.com...]

I take as example this directory;As you can see,on the left there is a PR bar:What do you think it shows?
Is it a decoration? No. Is it the home page PR? No.
Is it...what?
It must have a meant,isn't it?

Well,this is the overall PR I'm talking about.

Extracted by my previous edited link:

Fact: A website has a maximum amount of PageRank that is distributed between its pages by internal links.

The maximum PageRank in a site equals the number of pages in the site * 1. The maximum is increased by inbound links from other sites and decreased by outbound links to other sites. We are talking about the overall PageRank in the site and not the PageRank of any individual page. You don't have to take my word for it. You can reach the same conclusion by using a pencil and paper and the equation.

Fact: The maximum amount of PageRank in a site increases as the number of pages in the site increases.

The more pages that a site has, the more PageRank it has. Again, by using a pencil and paper and the equation, you can come to the same conclusion. Bear in mind that the only pages that count are the ones that Google knows about.

Fact: By linking poorly, it is possible to fail to reach the site's maximum PageRank, but it is not possible to exceed it.

Poor internal linkages can cause a site to fall short of its maximum but no kind of internal link structure can cause a site to exceed it. The only way to increase the maximum is to add more inbound links and/or increase the number of pages in the site.

Cautions: Whilst I thoroughly recommend creating and adding new pages to increase a site's total PageRank so that it can be channeled to specific pages, there are certain types of pages that should not be added. These are pages that are all identical or very nearly identical and are known as cookie-cutters. Google considers them to be spam and they can trigger an alarm that causes the pages, and possibly the entire site, to be penalized. Pages full of good content are a must.

Still persuaded that I'm wrong?

Specter

5:49 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 27, 2001
posts:1186
votes: 16


In which PhilC talks about a theoretical maximum site PR but says nothing about this being what is reflected in the green bar displayed on the directory pages...

This is off-topic for this thread, but I think it is an important point, as is the general level of discussion in this forum.

If you are going to postulate something as absolute fact, as you did, then it is not only polite but also reasonable to provide some proof for what you are claiming.

Let's see, why couldn't the toolbar PR be inaccurate and the directory PR be the "correct" level for the page?

Or what about the toolbar and the directory being taken from different databases? Or different times?

And, since you haven't done anyone the courtesy of replying to their points, why does a site have different levels of directory PR depending on which page is being referenced if it is site PR being displayed?

Lots of questions and very few answers and even less absolute fact.

6:00 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 1, 2003
posts:1206
votes: 2


Still persuaded that I'm wrong?

Absolutely. But mostly just lmao that you admonish steve to learn more about google (particularly with regard to the Directory) before he speaks while you post something so clearly wrong.

Read a few of his posts. He is usually one of the first to pick up on nuances with the Directory.

6:05 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 31, 2004
posts:786
votes: 0


Specter

I thought that was a great post and a most interesting view point.

Over a long period we have been increasing the number of content pages on our site and we did get an uplift in the directory to almost the top of the PR6s for our sector yet our index page PR remained showing at PR5.

We have very few outbound links to other websites. Do you think the PR on page is weakened by links to other pages within your own site? We have been including links to other parts of our site in our page footers and im wondering if this is a likely cause of PR reduction onpage?

7:58 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:June 20, 2002
posts:4652
votes: 0


"Is it the home page PR?"

Of course.

"Still persuaded that I'm wrong?"

Your assertion is obviously false. Once again, at least look at the Directory, for example a couple listings for webmasterworld:
[google.com...]
[google.com...]

10:12 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 4, 2002
posts:1911
votes: 3


I manage 27 sites and checked them for changes in PR and noticed that the newer ones (less that 6 months old) all had their home page PR less than inner pages, even for sites less than 2 months old at time of the update. However the older sites have a higher PR on the home page than the inner pages.

I have installed a 301 redirect from non-www to www on all the sites so that is not the cause of the problem and the PR stays the same whether I search with or without the index.html also.

5:06 pm on Apr 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 1, 2005
posts:741
votes: 0


Sorry guys,

But I have to repeat myself:

LEARN MORE ABOUT GOOGLE!

These are your objections:

And, since you haven't done anyone the courtesy of replying to their points, why does a site have different levels of directory PR depending on which page is being referenced if it is site PR being displayed?

"Still pessuaded that I'm wrong?"

Absolutely. But mostly just lmao that you admonish steve to learn more about google (particularly with regard to the Directory) before he speaks while you post something so clearly wrong.

If you are going to postulate something as absolute fact, as you did, then it is not only polite but also reasonable to provide some proof for what you are claiming.

"Is it the home page PR?"
Of course.

"Still persuaded that I'm wrong?"

Your assertion is obviously false. Once again, at least look at the Directory...

This is the answer:

Let's make a simple example;

Go to the following link for Google Directory:

[directory.google.com...]

Take for example,the Exstream Media web site.

Look at its Directory PR;
Than,go to its home page and tell me if the value is the same...

I repeat the question:Still persuaded that I'm wrong?

Specter

This 39 message thread spans 2 pages: 39
 

Join The Conversation

Moderators and Top Contributors

Hot Threads This Week

Featured Threads

Free SEO Tools

Hire Expert Members