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Google on permananent Dance

I've never seen new results take so long to stabilise

     
4:43 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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OK, am used to dances, I'm used to them coming at varying intervals, I'm used to mini updates, carying time frames for pr updates and inbound links counts.

But I've never never seen results be so on the bounce for so long.

ALL my sites(80+) are bouncing between google results from 3 weeks ago, and those I see right now. In 30 minutes, they will bounce back again, and then back again, between the two sets of results.

Is anyone else experiencing this? Surely this is not a dance, its gone on far too long.

Anyone else seeing this?

6:34 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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yes nippi,
i have similar observation for my site. Prior to current update, it was ranking in top 20 in google for my primary keywords at at #1 for secondary keywords, now its nowhere in first 500 results neighter for primary nor for secondary keywords. Althoug my site is a cultural site with clean SEO...NO bad SEO techniques. However it still comes back within top 20 now and then since last Allegra Update.
6:43 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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But I've never never seen results be so on the bounce for so long.

You must not have been looking during the Florida update. I think that Google is rolling back or tweaking, whatever you prefer to call it, the Allegra update.

I keep seeing a site in one of my serps ping pong between 5,6 and 9. They are doing a lot of URL tracking and monitoring user activity, so don't click on your competitors' domains. ;)

7:03 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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The Google results are all over the shop, depending on the IP address you hit at the time you search.

There are at least 2 dramatically different indexes.

There are tons of companies who no longer rank for their own registered company name on some of these datacentres - and whether they do or don't rank for their own unique company name just depends on the IP address you hit....

That's not giving a good result to users - and indicates that there is a huge technical issue in the 'plex....

See Walkman's post #518 in this thread

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7:05 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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or you could succumb to my theory.. which i posted at another forum.

Different set of results for different computers you use, throws off SEO companies reporting on client rankings .. thus leading more people into Adwords for reporting purposes.

I'm probably just paranoid.

hopefully everything will be "in sync" soon.

7:25 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Different set of results for different computers you use

"I see dead people"

I think you are paranoid.

7:38 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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i hope so ;)
i also havent seen an "update" take this long over the last 5 years i been doing SEO.
but i suppose it's to be expected, ever since there index went to 8billion. alot of data to mine through.

but.. if they are displaying different set of results all the time, it's going to be harder for SEO companies to effectively communicate to there clients, there overall positioning on Google at any one time.

which would lead people more into Adwords, because of the monitoring and accountability PPC offers.

but as i said, pretty sure it's just me paranoid and things will be fine soonish.

7:44 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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The thing about this update is that I don't see any progression.

Google may be bouncing between different results on different datacentres, but I don't see each actual different set changing very much.

I get served the same results everytime I search. So, if I didn't actually know that Google had other datacentres and go and see the results are different, I'd never be any the wiser.

This update is not updating!

What makes me wonder if it is, in fact, over. And this is just going to be the way things are. Otherwise, perhaps Google is broken and they are working behind the scenes to try to fix it?

Suggy

7:52 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I believe in the next six months to a year, there will be different results depending on the IP you use. Things have become so advance that on Adwords, you can place your ad in whatever city you want. It can't be long before Google results will show different results in different cities.

Example:

If you search the word "car" in LA, you will get a couple of national results and eight local LA car results. If you live in Dallas you will get the same couple of national results and eight local Dallas car results etc. In my view, the national results will be national car companies.

When this happens, there will be no more SEO on a national bases because results will be pointed to the IP address of the user. If Adwords can do this and my Zone Alarm Firewall can tell me where an IP address is located. Search results can't be that far behind.

7:57 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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i do agree to a certain extent..

however, in this office we are all on the same IP address and alot of us don't get the same results when we use Google.

some people are getting routed to the new datacenter type results and some of us the older set of results.

so i don't know what thats telling me. :)

7:59 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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You're right. I'm not talking about now. Six to twelve months from now things are going to be very different, in my view. Just saying we should get use to this type of activity.

I've read that MS is already building this into it's search for post Beta release. I doubt if Google will let them make such a drastic improvement for users without Google doing the same.

8:02 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Good Point Mark Hutch, though probably warrants a whole new thread.

I guess the prelude to what you are proposing was Google's decision to automatically redirect users to their local TLD. Typing in google.com gets me google.co.uk!

8:03 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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it's going to be complicated, possibly for them to do this.
i know alot of australia for instance is 203.* based, but so is alot of south east asia / singapore.

if they don't have reverse dns type of thing setup, people in australia might be getting displayed results from singapore on the .com or something similar.

thats why most search engines have regional specific google's, like google.com.au i can check the box if i want local sites (all be it, if your on an aussie ip, you will still come up even though your company aint based in australia).

google is a fair bit behind MSN and Yahoo in filtering out good local results to there regional/local indexes IMO.

8:07 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Most non webmaster types, still only type in one word when making a search. Most of us have known this for years if we've ever done SEO successfully. The public is very very slow to change, so it only makes sense that the major companies will make it easier for them to search for what they want.

Just imagine if you live in LA and type in the single word:

restaurants

and the first 10 results are LA restaurants. The search engine that can accomplish this first, will be the leader in the near future. Sorry guys, I know this if off topic. Going to bed. :)

8:12 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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so you mean all this educating of clients of how to search over the past 5 years will be going to waste? ;)

*cries*..

good night.

8:24 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I believe in the next six months to a year, there will be different results depending on the IP you use.

I don't know about that... One issue is several ISP's use proxy, and those proxy connections skip all over the country. AOL for example.

IP based results would also limit free information search of many kinds. I imagine a search engine taking control over what a user sees in the SERPS based on their IP is taking control away from the user. What makes this different than Microsoft forcing IE onto their users?

At this time I can't see how IP based results would better Search. There would have to be a careful balance.

8:30 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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IP based results are already in use in regional Google's to a certain extent, if people check the box.

Of course I can see Google developing this even more as in Australia their local IP / .au filtered results are IMO behind ninemsn.com.au and yahoo.com.au

I don't think Google will make IP based results on the .com, but hey you never know.

Alot of people have over the years been trying to educate new users and Internet users of how to search in a search engine and even the Google Adwords support, helps people pin-point the keyword phrases they should target.. so all this education over the years would go to waste if they implement such a thing.

But you never know!

8:35 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I couldn't sleep. Big surprise for me. :)

Slone: The type of search I'm talking about is just for single and maybe double word folks. You'll still be able to find different stuff if you enter in more keywords. Like: serial numbers for modems and stuff like that. However, keep in mind that by some estimates 50% of searchers only enter in one keyword. This is what I'm talking about.

P.S. As mentioned in a previous message, Proxy IP's and IP's outside the US can still be tracked to their local area. A Proxy still has to go through a regular IP address to get on the Internet. It is amazing how this whole thing works. If you have any doubts, search Google for sites that will track where you are via the IP address you are using to access their site. I'll bet it won't be very far off.

8:58 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Not sleeping either.. Taking a break from some work.

MarkHutch: thanks, I see where you're coming from now. ;)

9:02 am on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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>> I've never seen new results take so long to stabilise

I have: [webmasterworld.com...]

2:07 pm on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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claus - thank you - I knew we had had this discussion way back but couldn't find it.
I believe the same features are in play right now as they were during that time and if I remember correctly, things settled down with fresh bot runs affecting the SERPs every few days?
3:57 pm on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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They are doing a lot of URL tracking and monitoring user activity, so don't click on your competitors' domains.

I've always thought this made some sense... apply a bit of the AdWords algo that rewards higher CTR by moving site up in rankings. In order to keep it from becoming stale, you'd have to introduce a small amount of rotation.

5:30 pm on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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>Most non webmaster types, still only type in one word when making a search.

>Most of us have known this for years if we've ever done SEO successfully. The public is very very slow to change, so it only makes sense that the major companies will make it easier for them to search for what they want.
Just imagine if you live in LA and type in the single word:

>restaurants

>and the first 10 results are LA restaurants. The search engine that can accomplish this first, will be the leader in the near future. Sorry guys, I know this if off topic. Going to bed.

Your idea wouldn't work. Or, at least it wouldn't be that simple. How could Google know if I entered "restaurants" I wanted a local search? Maybe I just want to learn something about the restaurant business. Your idea would work if the SE had on the page a "local results only" box that could be ticked. However, that would have the problem people would need to learn to tick that local results box.

5:30 pm on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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>Most non webmaster types, still only type in one word when making a search.

>Most of us have known this for years if we've ever done SEO successfully. The public is very very slow to change, so it only makes sense that the major companies will make it easier for them to search for what they want.
Just imagine if you live in LA and type in the single word:

>restaurants

>and the first 10 results are LA restaurants. The search engine that can accomplish this first, will be the leader in the near future. Sorry guys, I know this if off topic. Going to bed.

Your idea wouldn't work. Or, at least it wouldn't be that simple. How could Google know if I entered "restaurants" I wanted a local search? Maybe I just want to learn something about the restaurant business. Your idea would work if the SE had on the page a "local results only" box that could be ticked. However, that would have the problem people would need to learn to tick that local results box.

7:53 pm on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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rfgdxm1 - if I remember the 60 minute piece correctly, Google was demoing a process where they would take your zip location or something like that (or even a GPS type locator) for the handhelds search, and load up a list of Italian resturaunts near where you were. Id have to go back and read the transcript again to verify the process they were running in the labs already.
8:23 pm on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Hi rfgdxm1:

I would bet that most folks that enter in a single word like that are looking for a local business. You'll still be able to search for what you're looking for by entering in more than one keyword. Example: car dealership dallas texas. However, if you're in NYC and enter in car or car dealership you will only NYC dealerships. If you're in NYC and enter in car dealership dallas texas you will get the same results as the Dallas people.

In my view, SEO will be hurt badly by this, but I do believe it is the wave of the future. If Adwords can do it, then regular Google can, too.

11:02 pm on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I haven't seen any major change in the results at www.google.com; they have been pretty much exactly the same for many weeks (except for the odd fresh page, etc).

I do see completely different results if I directly access several 66.., 64.. or 216.. IP addresses, but I never see those "other" results appearing directly at www.google.com.

11:14 pm on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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the dance is over IMO. I had hopes, but it's all over now. Those few DCs are just fringe and G just keeps them there.
11:20 pm on Feb 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I have stable results now(I think) have not seen any changes in 6-8 hrs. Mainly good changes for me, one site is down, but I expected it to be, with foreseen duplicate content issue with URL names changing during the dance.

Still, took a lifetime.

12:25 am on Feb 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

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must be your location :D
i get the "newer" type results now, which include alot of sites that were otherwise buried in that other index.
heh
this has happened before with google using 2 seperate indexes at any one time. i do remember not so long ago actually.
it seems every few days we get a seperate set of results, but if i remember correctly they stabilized after a while.. i think.
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