Forum Moderators: skibum
>Why work to ramp up someone else's site
>when you can ramp up your ownDoes the DotComMorgue ring a bell? The site reaper could come calling for us too you know.
I keep looking at these ad numbers - it would make a preacher cuss on sunday. ....Something has to give soon. The current ad market is really getting scary to me. I kept thinking it would bounce back, but it hasn't. Course, I recall going through similar last summer too.
So, here's a question for all web publishers: IF/WHEN banner revenues dry up, will it cause you to pull the plug on your site?
You and I are of like minds (that's why we've been hanging around doing this crap since 1995, right?), but I was hoping for some tear-jerking, gut-wrenching, soul-baring confessions from some of the other publishers out there.
Lurkers, what say ye? CAN YOU MAKE IT WITHOUT BANNER REVENUE? If so, how and why, si vous plait? We're not looking for your deepest and darkest trade secrets here, but some general insights might be invaluable. I'll start:
Why yes, rc, I can make it. I only started serving banners in 1999. It's less than one-third of the total revenue. The rest comes from geographically targeted sponsorships and data sales.
>there will be a mad scramble for affiliations
What kind? I think the vast majority of affiliate networks (in the traditional web sense of putting up a banner or button in return for CPC or commission) SUCK, and are not worth a webmaster's keystrokes.
I'm resurrecting this thread because, now several months into the banner revenue drought, I've recently seen signs that the answer for many publishers is 'NO!' --though the site owners are not yet giving up entirely and pulling the plug. Any comments?
In the UK certainly. It seems that more sites over here are e-commerce led and looking to sell something tangible as opposed to relying on ad revenue.
I may be wrong about this and would certainly love to hear from any UK/European posters/lurkers with experience in this area.
BTW check out this "typical" UK banner ad, you will need a very fast connection. ;)
Edited by: NFFC
Having promoted ecom's for more people than I care to admit, I know pretty much all the issues involved. The question is always the same as offline, do you have quality product to sell? Let's see, that is buy low, sell high right?
The worst may be yet to come. New numbers from e-commerce research firm BizRate.com show that online retail sales dropped 13 percent during the second quarter, while overall U.S. retail sales grew 9 percent. Those chilling figures, which BizRate attributed to fewer sales rather than smaller purchases, followed already dire predictions by several leading analysts that more Web stores will be out of business soon.--Aug 07 When Toysmart Fell Apart [zdnet.com]
Whether they know it or not, many publishers are now deeply embroiled in a war of attrition.
``They are trying very aggressively to move away from their traditional model,'' Corcoran said. ``They recognize that anyone who banks their future on banner advertising is in pretty bad shape.''
Yahoo battles . . . . . .the dot-com storms. Top portal looking to new services for revenue. -article here [mercurycenter.com]
My two little dotcoms (started on a shoestring and practical biz model, both profitable) have never had the traffic to make banner ads pay or, until recently, the revenue to afford to buy them. Carefully chosen affiliate programs have provided good income.
I've watched in amazement and disbelief at the kind of venture capital money that was thrown into startups, much of it in ads. As the Dotcom Morgue thread has shown, VC money is drying up, extravagent spending on ads will dry up as well... Affiliate programs based on a sound business model are the place to be...
My crystal ball clouds over again... :( Durn thing never has worked right...
re affiliates:
Yes, some sites can pull a nice revenue from SELECTED affiliate programs. There are several known to frequent these forums that make "a good living" from them. But for the general interest site with general interest traffic, I'd still say most affiliate programs aren't worth the keystrokes.
[note the dates on this thread, there's a bit of a timeline here, which partly accounts for why I occasionally reactivate it.]
Things constantly change, you have to change with them to succeed. I am always seeing posts (another board) where a webmaster is complaining about the low CPMs, branding banners shown for CPC revenue, and trick/highly clickable banners given as CPM. Forget the CPM/CPC ad companies - find a targetted affiliate program for your audience and figure out how to make the most of it. Play with text ads, popups, different buttons/banners and their placement. You control the ads, you pick which ones work best for each page/location. Evaluate what you do, and make changes. You can be much more successful than letting the ad company do it. It takes more work, but you make more, and the ad company cut is gone. You also learn a lot in the process. Once you figure out your user demographic, the rest is easy.
I usually enjoy a $.10 to $.15 EPV (earnings per visitor.) I have never run the first banner ad on my site, and I think I can close to double my EPV over the next couple of weeks. My site is an extreme case of this, but this can be implemented on basically any site.
Now if I could only get my SEO skills up to par with my revenue skills, I would be set! ;)
"Dotcoms may be scrabbling for cash, but the online ad agencies aren't worried . As long as traditional offline companies keep discovering the Internet, they'll keep raking in the cash"
The Standard - Europe [europe.thestandard.com]
But it may take a while.
Merrill Lynch analyst Henry Blodget says the hangover that has resulted from the pure-play "dot-com advertising binge" could last for months. The problem is that traditional advertisers aren't moving dollars online fast enough to offset the loss of dot-com dollars" -article here [zdnet.com]
This thread has survived longer than many web ventures, but looking back over it, I realize that I seriously underestimated how deeply online advertising -and primarily banners- had become "THE reason to be" on the web. And not just for small, independent publishers, either.
A family friend asked what I did for a living, and I told him I work for an SEO company. He didn't know what that was, but at a party, he asked around. Of the 50 people he asked, only 2 responded, both high paid computer consultants. I'm not even sure if they understand what SEO currently is, but the low awareness level was surprising.
I think too many companies just saw the banners as the web vehicle, and starting throwing their money that way. After all, somebody had to fund Yahoo...and they seemed to make money, right?
And the number of meta tag optimization sites I've seen is still amazing...I wonder how many companies have bought those services, and then wondered why the traffic never came?
Well, just my 2 or 3 cents.
Cheers,
Han Solo
I expect to see affiliate programs ravaged next.
