Forum Moderators: phranque

Message Too Old, No Replies

Website Accessibility

         

sandpetra

10:53 am on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'd be interested in discussing the latest views on website accessibility - how many of you bother at all to validate your pages etc? Is an accessible website a profitable one?

If you had to recommend one accessible website design technique, what would it be?

Mine's would be'

Separate Design from Content using CSS + XML.

txbakers

12:11 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I always validate HTML.

Accessibility is a good thing, but I don't worry about people without javascript.

UI is more important than web-to-speech (imo)

BarHopper

1:05 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I agree with the last statement that UI is more important. It definatly is. Now the difference between a stretch site and the difference between a set 780x600 site is where you will find yourself the most bafled. I find that for sites with lots and lots and lots of content have better use for a stretch site and will result in a better conversion rate from the users. You can get away very clean with a site that has 300 words per page. UI is very important. Youll notice its just as important as link building in some respect. Keeping your user, using your user, and getting them to do what you want. It all reflects back to UI of your site.

sandpetra

2:04 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



er.....I've had a long day - What is UI and IMU?

Span

2:18 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



UI = user interface
IMU = International Mathematic Union, heh, you really had a long day, lol..
IMO = in my opinion

sandpetra

2:33 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



much obliged!

SPAN, you never noted your best accessibility tip!

Surely an oversight!

Span

2:50 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Valid markup and CSS are just the beginning of making a website accessible. Not many of us use aural stylesheets, test sites with a screenreader, use color schemes with 9 different kinds of colorblindness in mind if it's not part of the job. Making a site really accessible takes an awful lot of work and research and thus time.

On the other hand, a while ago I read about 30% of internet users that don't know how to scroll...

JKMitchell

3:38 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



A simple tip, add a meaningful 'alt' to all images that actually describe the image.

I once saw a visually impaired person using a talking browser. The 1st site they visited had so many keywords in the alt tag that the page was less than useful, the second had nothing in the 'alts' and the browser kept saying something along the lines of "no information", again not very helpful.

Regards

John

sandpetra

4:06 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



SPAN
When I mean 'accessible website'I know you cannot make every website accessible to all - perhaps I should rephrase - To maximise accessibility for all, what techniques should we web developers employ or disregard?

You mention 9 different colourblindness things, well surely all thats needed is a stylesheet switcher that allows a visitor to change the contrast / colours / text size of the website, and you've got that issue sorted?

Yes accessibility is timeconsuming but surely the inclusiveness and seo benfits alone justify us taking the time to develop accessibility?

And you dont need to test with a screenreader - you should already know the main problems (spacer images + alt text etc) being in these forums!

Perhaps the best we can do is build sites that eradicate the obvious barriers to disabled people, but isnt that a good place to start?

That's a bit negative attitude you've got there or is it indicativeignorence of the true issue of accessibility (que big arguement - I've never had a dust up in a forum before! :)

txbakers

4:07 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



A simple tip, add a meaningful 'alt' to all images that actually describe the image.

Actually, the "alt" attribute is required for valid HTML.

You can also add a "title" attribute which is supposed to be the popup tool-tip.

Span

5:56 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Negative attitude? sandpetra, I am fully aware of the problems. I stopped using spacer gifs four years ago, I don't use yellow text on white, I use accesskey attributes and when nescessary taborder attributes, code tableless valid XHTML and CSS, separate content from presentation, I use title attributes, check all alt text with a text browser. I use very little JavaScript and make sure everything still works with JavaScript disabled. I don't use Flash. Navigation is the same on every page for people with cognitive disabilities. I'm not ignorant.

And yes, it's possible to change colors/contrast with a stylesheet switcher. You can change text size too. But don't give users a choice between 9px/10px/12px like you can see on every site that uses a stylesheet switcher for font sizes. That makes no difference and is ridiculous. People with bad eyesight may need up to 150px large fonts - or even larger.

trialofmiles

5:59 pm on Sep 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



You can try reading through W3C's Web Accessibility Initiative
[w3.org...]

Actually, the "alt" attribute is required for valid HTML.

How does JKMitchell's suggestion contradict that? And whether "alt" is required or not still doesn't enforce placing a meaningful value in there, which is what JKMitchell recommended doing.

sandpetra

8:58 am on Sep 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks SPAN

I think I agree with you on every point....but surely we should be using ems or % for font sizes?

Hope I didnt upset you :) - youre obviously not ignorant of the problem (as I suspected!).

Cheers.

What are your thoughts on Liquid Layout for browser sizes?

Where are you in the world?

rocknbil

10:11 pm on Sep 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I recently had to rework a site for Section 508 Acessibility. The site ws built entirely with style sheets to and validated HTML 4.01 loose, so the changes where not very difficult to implement.

I'm still one who uses tables for backwards compatibility. I've always included alt tags, and laid out my tables in a LOGICAL order (one that if read by a reader the row order makes logical sense.) The only major changes I needed to make were the few pages with NESTED tables. The recommendation says something to the effect that if you need to use tables for layout, lay out the cells so that if read by a reader they read in a logical order, but do not ever ever nest tables.

Javascript is fine, so long as the page functions WITHOUT it and no links or other page content are buried in Javascript. On this site, was used mostly for opening new windows and positioning some elements, all "bonus" features. Remove the JS and the CSS, if the page still reads, you're probably OK.

Stick to a dark text, light background scheme to provide optimum contrast.

A "skip navigation" link is required at the front of any link structures that skips over the navigation links to the beginning of the content.

Tab through all content on the pages. If the tabbing order does not seem logical, use tabindex attributes to make it so.

The only thing required by 508 guidelines that kept kicking a validation error for me was the summary attribute for tables:
<table summary="layout table">

What I've always suspected turned out to be true: remove as much markup from your content as possible, move it into a style sheet, and validate your pages, and you will be VERY close to accessibilty already.