Forum Moderators: phranque
He emailed me back with aggressive threats of what he does to spammers and who he was going to report me to and what the consequences would be.
We are both UK businesses, I clicked on his email link. It was a simple honest business proposition, not a sales letter.
My argument is that if you don't want people to email you, don't have a link.
Surely every email you receive from your site is 'unsolicited'? ... or are you soliciting emails by placing a link.
My question is did I 'spam' or is his interpretation of 'spamming' slightly distorted?
At least then you are replying, in which case nobody can in anyway, shape or form define it as spam... someone may try but you are definately replying.
I did not use a fax for the past three years, but just bought a new one .... as a reborn vector of message!
Spam to me is sending mass emails soliciting lewd, rude and crude services.
And therein lies the rub! Everyone has a different threshold for spam. We each draw the line at a different point.
I have a web site. I have an e:mail address listed on that web site. Every page on my site states: For additional information regarding boat charters, contact: my e:mail address.
Spam to me is any unsolicited e:mail which has nothing to do with my business. I have never opted into any mailing lists, but frequently cannot opt out. I receive between 300 to 500 unsolicited e:mails per day. All of them which have nothing to do with my business are spam whether they be lewd, rude, crude or trying to politely sell me life insurance!
My business is the sole purpose for this address. I am not soliciting annyone to contact me unless it is in regards to chartering a boat. Period, end of story.
Let me ask you a question; if someone contacted you who had say two boats, surplus to requirements and thought they would ideally suit your business, do you call it spam?
And to answer your next questions, would I answer them rudely if it was about two boats I have no interest in, the answer is no. As I said, the guy who went rangy on you went way over the top in his response to you.
That doesn't mean he has to accept your definition or my definition of spam. He clearly has his own definition and he is entitled to it. Accept that he is a jerk and move on!
I mentioned before that if you have a 'contact us', you are inviting emails, like it or not.
Imagine a new software package that allows the sender to write a message and press send. Another window comes up clearly outlining your terms of accepting emails and the consequences for sending a message outside those terms. Then a cancel button and send button.
I'm pretty sure that would filter some of the messages because, I personally would cancel the email anyway.
Strangely enough we have very little home grown ( sent in French language spam ) ...I have feeling it may have something to do with the penalties ..which make the can spam act look like a light tap on the wrist ..
one of the few peices of local legislation that I like ...
A request such that being discussed would not be considered spam tho ..and rightly so ...
The can spam act was always a spammers license to send ..anyone know how much the spam industry paid the guy who got it though? ..about the only way that these guys dont claim that they got my private email address is via telepathy with my dog ..
[edited by: Leosghost at 1:03 pm (utc) on April 12, 2005]
...if someone contacted you who had say two boats, surplus to requirements and thought they would ideally suit your business...
Actually, I don't think I would trust this. I'd likely view it as some sort of scam.
I just realised I don't trust email - which is what is at the heart of this matter.
If your offer is worth it to you perhaps an email apoligising for 'seeming' to send spam and restate the offer they may reconsider... or may not lol.
zoo
I mentioned before that if you have a 'contact us', you are inviting emails, like it or not.
Sigh ...
I've just removed the "Welcome" mat from in front of my door lest I unwittingly invite unwanted people into my home.
Psss, anyone wanna buy vessel?
If you care to read the threads you will note that it was a one off business proposition from one UK Business to another.
oh boy ........... do you know how many spams i get that are "business propositions"?
every argument you put forward is the same as what ever other spammer out there says to try and justify spam.
you lose.
game over.
don't send spam.
I mentioned before that if you have a 'contact us', you are inviting emails, like it or not.
please can you PM me with your telephone number and address?
you have a front door so you must be soliciting double glazing salesmen, jehovas witnesses etc - i'll help you out and let a few of them know you're waiting for them to knock.
you have a telephone so you must be soliciting for cold calls from kitchen salesmen, insurance brokers, loan sharks and other companies - i'll help you out and let them know you're waiting for the phone to ring.
you almost certainly have a letter box so you must be soliciting for begging letters from charities and pre-approved loans - i'll help you out and let a few companies know you're sat by the front door waiting for the postman to come ..............
oh, and as you have email, please can you tell me your email address so i can add you to a few spam lists? i'm sure you'd appreciate a few hundred extra emails every day ............
As for your frontdoor..etc, off topic.
I hate spam, it annoys me and I think those criminals should be clamped in irons. Then decent honest business people who do want to put a very straight forward business proposition ....not a sales pitch ..across, can do so without aggressive nasty threats from those who see anything other than a purchase order as spam.
Please do not tar me with the same brush as those sharks and pedlars that are killing this fantastic method of instant communication.
sometimes it helps to read the OP, or at least not forget what it was.
> every argument you put forward is the same as what ever
> other spammer out there says to try and justify spam.
As I said in my earlier post, I really hate spam, but what also gets on my nerves are are all those people who completely overreact, when receiving mail from an unknown person. I, too, got a really abusive mail once, when I wrote to someone about his website. I actually wanted to point something out that might be to his disadvantage and he started to scream blue murder.
People, if you do not want to be approached, cancel your e-mail accounts, because their only purpose is communication! And if you want to keep your accounts for whatever reason then learn to differentiate between bulk mail, where the senders don't know you from Jack and those where the senders think they have something that you might be truly interested in, as it is in line with your business. And if that proposition doesn't interest you, ignore it.
Pixelman
Next time, write to them using fake email addresses and let them have the only option of contacting you through your ybbfkszuyztwpp-ayam-a-spammer.com domain.
Why bear the brunt of the abuse for the 1000 other spams that he is getting and unable to hit back at.
I've been operating my site since 1996 and on the odd occasion I have come across a site that both of us could benefit and I've dropped them a quick email. I always provide my address and phone number and they have all responded ... bar this one.
In reality over this near ten year period I've sent maybe ten, one per year so it never crossed my mind to use stealth tactics.
I'm sure most would agree that we shouldn't have to either.
We have those that feel 'spam is spam' and no grey areas.
We have those that place any email other than an order as spam.
Then we have more liberal people that accept that relevant business emails are acceptable and not spam.
Then there is a group that feel websites with a 'contact us' email link have an open door.
The UK and USA have two different laws and people argue that it isn't a legal definition.
There doesn't seem to be a clear dividing line on exactly what a spam email is.
I migrated to Thunderbird and it cuts about 90% of my deleting, I don't get 'email rage' but accept that I have a 'contact us' email link and like it or not its an invitation.
1: Take a good look at the site. See where you would like your link to be and figure out how the 2 sites could mutually benefit each other (from a content perspective).
2: Send an e-mail starting with compliments about the site, name some features to show that you actually looked at it and are interested in contributing to it.
3: Make a few 'howdy neighbor' type comments. Don't come off as a rival or a competitor or as someone just looking for links. Come off as an equal who is interested in providing good relevancy.
4: Make a proposition (remember be knowlegable about the structure of his/her site). "I like your widget page it would be a perfect page for me to link to from my widget-types page."
5: Make a proposition but leave it open to suggestion (you are proposing a meeting of minds to find a mutual benifit).
If after that if the guy flames you then move on- forget it - theres plenty of fish in the sea and with that attitude the guy is no competition anyway.
Hello, this is not spam but its not an order either!
You may think that your important fantastic offer is not spam, but you are not the one receiving it.
When checking my email, if I say it is spam then it is spam.
You can argue until you're blue in the face but it not you getting the spam so it not your decision.
Spam is what the recipient decides it is, QED."
And if I say it's a duck that sucker can squeal until ..
>>>>" You may think that your important fantastic offer is not spam, but you are not the one receiving it.">>>
I have never mentioned any "important fantastic offer", it was a one off proposition addressed to the owner, but picked up by the secretary of the assistant junior webmaster's cousin, who decided to send a very aggressive threat in response....in their official capacity!
>>>> "The recipient of the email is the one who can decide if it is spam or not. >>>
So unauthorised secretary of the assistant junior webmaster's cousin deems it spam ...so it is, are you serious?
>>>>When checking my email, if I say it is spam then it is spam.
If you are the site owner, then you are entitled to filter your email as you see fit, but accept responsibilty for missing that one off proposal that is genuine..your call!
>>>And if I say it's a duck that sucker can squeal until ..
That one went right over my head!
I was quoting another poster.
">>>And if I say it's a duck that sucker can squeal until ..
That one went right over my head!"
It's sort of a takeoff on "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck"
The person I quoted seems to believe that if something is squealing like a pig, but he deems it to be a duck, it's a duck.
A few folks in this thread are placing waaaaay too much importance on their personal prejudices and not nearly enough on what the real world is about.
I doubt very seriously if they would get as indignant in a face-to-face with a live person. Anonymity makes commandos out of so many ..
I have to say, when I do do read some of these threads I often picture that secretary to the assistant of the junior webmasters cousin, being the same person....with commando trousers on!
I've been in marketing for some thirty odd years. Rejection is a buying signal!
