Interesting Transaction In The Works

Anonymous buyer soliciting W-9 SSN / TIN info before paying a dime

[Webwork]

So, would you release your social security number or taxpayer idenfication number, and related information, to a person only known to you as "anonymous gmail" . . with a first name signature at the bottom of all communications?

Even if that person had just agreed to pay you a not inconsiderable sum for a domain name?

And was agreeable to using Escrow.com?

All "looks" kinda legit . .

I mean, what could possibly go wrong with me forwarding my social security number to an anonymous person?

Well . . I just issued a "FULL STOP" email to my . . ahem . . cough . . buyer. Essentially advising "I'll show you mine IFF you show me your's . . " (Perhaps a poor choice of metaphors as, at least theoretically, I'm dealing with a woman . . which would be a gambit a scammer might choose to employ . . . #justsaying . . )

I don't mind doing business with intermediaries. I have done so in the past. They were acting on behalf of some rather substantial players. I guess they didn't get the message that I don't price domains (generics, all) based upon "who is buying" . . fool that I am.

But, really? Give up my SSN? Based upon a series a nice anonymous emails?

That would be brilliant . . if it was(is?) a scam, wouldn't it?

"Yes, yes, We are agreed to pay you $$$$$$$$$$$$$ for #*#*#*#*#*.com. However, we cannot issue payment to Escrow.com until we have your SSN . . thank you very much . . signed . . with love . . NoOneYouKnow-a-k-a . . TheElbonianCrimeSyndicate".

Argh. Am I too skeptical? I know I AM skeptical but, really . . . argh . . . sigh . . stay tuned . .

And, no, I'm not going to reveal the specifics . . and, hopefully, this is all on the up and up.

Sigh . .

[LifeinAsia]

Either a scam or a clueless person who doesn't understand the purpose of a W-9. The buyer is buying your property, not paying for your services. So no W-9 needed.

Point that out to the person. If the person still insists that it's needed, kill the deal.

And if the person says, "Yes, I know, but my boss/accounting/management insists on it anyway." then respond that his boss/accounting/management just killed the deal because of their stupidity.

If you still want the deal to go through, increase the price by the aggravation cost associated with this back and forth.

But no matter what- no disclosure of SSN. Even if it's a legit buyer, there is NO reason for them to request it, and even less reason for them to get it.

[Webwork]

Ya, that was my second thought LiA- that the buyer is simply misguided about the nature of the transaction. I wouldn't say clueless so much as, possibly, "a wee bit inexperienced in this realm".

I've already sent a second email . . after my first, slightly incredulous email . . advising of the un-necessity.

I've done more than a few transactions over the years, some with some of the biggest players in commerce, and not once was I asked to provide such details.

It will be interesting to see where this goes. If there is a sudden wall of silence then I will be sending out the alerts - far and wide - ASAP.

Hopefully any number of "lurkers" to this forum will be spreading food for thought "heads up" messages to their friends. This WOULD BE a good scam . . if that is what it turns out to be. Really, if I was half asleep when the request came in . . .

[RedBar]

Being in the UK I hadn't a clue what you were writing about until I looked up W-9!

[toidi]

I stopped giving my ssn to everybody. Doctors, dentists all ask for it but none have questioned me not supplying it.

@lifeinasia
if they insist, give them your ein number.

[Nutterum]

I understand this is a US thing and people outside that bog of conspiracy and paranoia, are giving their details left and right for good or no reason without having any issues. From my knowledge there is merit in asking details for W-9. Hell, people issue W-9 for gift cards let alone hefty-priced domains.

[LifeinAsia]

The problem isn't just giving it to the person asking for it. Even if that person is trustworthy and there is a legit reason to ask for it (in this case, there is not), that information may be viewed by lots of other people who may not be trustworthy, or may be compromised.

For example, let's say you scan and e-mail the W-9 to a buyer (who is actually legit). Although he has no intention to do anything nefarious with your SSN, he's not very good at keeping his computer virus/Trojan free. The person/group that has hacked his computer now has access to the W-9 you just e-mailed him.

Or maybe you sent your W-9 to a well-establish company that is certainly legit, like Target or Wellpoint or any number of other reputable businesses that have been hacked and had sensitive/confidential information stolen.

Identity theft is a huge issue. Yes, millions of people give out their SSN without any issues. On the other hand, many people HAVE had issues. And it only takes one issue- 50 times of no problems doesn't make up for 1 time with a problem.

Having your SSN stolen isn't like having a credit card stolen. If your CC is stolen, you call the CC company, cancel the card, get a replacement card, and (in most cases) you aren't responsible for any charges racked up.

You can't just get a new SSN the same way. In extreme cases, you can get a new one. But that opens up a whole new can of worms- your SSN is tied to your entire credit/financial/job/academic history.

Hell, people issue W-9 for gift cards let alone hefty-priced domains

Which is completely wrong. It's the same situation as the OP's- either the person asking for it is clueless or has bad intentions. Lots of people doing something doesn't make it correct (or even legal).

[Webwork]

Curiously quiet on the home front since I advised I wasn't coughing up my personal info to an anonymous party who, as yet, hadn't put up a dime - not even to escrow.

I have a hunch this MAY be legit but little of what has transpired has built confidence in legitimacy. I've done business with intermediaries acting on behalf of anonymous principals but this one is setting new standards: anonymous agent acting on behalf of an anonymouse principal. Typically, the intermediaries have established reputations - so my concerns about legitimacy don't extend "to the root".

[Webwork]

Sometimes things work out.

All signs are this is a "Go". Legit intermediary now revealed. Pretty much as legit as they get. (Big U.S. firm.)

Darn! This isn't nearly as interesting a tale as if it turned out to be a new tactic in fishig expeditions.

In similar circumstances YMMV. My advice, when it comes to dealing with anonymous intermediaries acting on behalf of undisclosed princiopals, is that you proceed cautiously. I would definitely advise against giving away your SSN, and possibly even your TIN, until you have clear reason to trust whomever you are dealing with.

[LifeinAsia]

Glad to hear it's (apparently) not a scam!

I would definitely advise against giving away your SSN, and possibly even your TIN, until you have clear reason to trust whomever you are dealing with.

And I'd still refuse to give it unless there is a true reason to give it out:
- becoming an employee/independent contractor of the company
- opening a bank/brokerage account*
- applying for a loan or credit card
- applying for medical insurance

*As I think about this situation some more, I'm now thinking that if the escrow transaction exceeds $10,000, it probably falls under the IRS reporting requirements, since money is being wired around, presumably between banks. Although it seems like the escrow company should be the one asking for a W-9.

[creeking]

I mean, what could possibly go wrong with me forwarding my social security number to an anonymous person?

what would happen if the other party issues you a 1099, and reports it to the IRS? (as if the domain purchase was income)

[Webwork]

It all gets reported, creeking, which keeps things simple and allows me sleep soundly. I've never much minded paying taxes. It's how those dollars are spent that grinds my gears just a little.

[creeking]

I meant improproperly reported.


a few years ago, some political activists reported 1099 income for their opponents. since that caused their claimed income to be different from the total income reported to the IRS (which included the fake 1099 income), the opponents were all audited.

[Webwork]

An audit isn't a big deal if one's tax and banking records are complete and accurate.

Filing a false and malicious 1099 may be a much bigger deal resulting in a criminal prosecution and lawsuit for malicious action.