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my domain name has been stolen

stolen by my hosting company

         

leshouches

9:30 pm on Aug 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I registered my domain in Nov 07 and I was the legal registrant. then in aug 08, I changed my hosting company and unbeknown to me, they registered themselves as the admin contact and legal registrants of my domain. I didnt discover they had done this until July 09 when I refused to pay an invoice for some web work they had untaken for me and not completed properly. They are refusing to give my domain back to me until I pay their invoice (effectively holding my domain to ransom) My ROR are refusing to help because they say the current registrant of my domain obtained the correct transfer secret. I cannot afford legal representation (which I understand will cost at least 1500 dollars)I am at a complete loss of how to proceed and it seems to be completely unfair that my hoster has abused their position in order to steal my domain which is causing considerable damage to my small business. Can anyone suggest what I can do? How can I put pressure on my ROR to help me?

Leosghost

10:08 pm on Aug 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



what is an ROR?
which host company ( dont mention the name the mods will delete it ) did this the old one or the new one ..

for advice ( BTW we dont do legal advice ..and any supposedly legal advice you get in any fora is worth no more than ) ..you have to be more clear in the way you express yourself ..

and welcome to WebmasterWorld [webmasterworld.com]

leadegroot

12:21 am on Aug 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I assume ROR = "Registrar of Record"

I think you are stuffed, short of going the full ICANN process, and low odds of success even then.
If they have purloined the email address to effect the transfer then they did a legitimate (for certain values of same) transfer and its a major job to prove it was fraudulent and have it undone.

If this domain is really important to you, best to pay the web work bill then ask them to change the details?
But it might be time to abandon the domain and start over with a new one :(

Lessons:
* Your hosting company is just your hosting company and you don't use them for web development or any other services.
* Contact email addresses for domains should be off-domain and not at any domains on the same hosting.

(Oh, and IANAL, but I think the above is more practical advice than legal)

kaled

2:40 am on Aug 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Since a lawyer would most likely cost more than the bill your only possible legal redress would be to make a formal complaint to the police alleging theft, fraud, blackmail and hacking.

In any case, you absolutely must get in writing a clear and unambiguous statement that when the bill (for the work) is paid in full (exact amount) that the domain will be transferred to you. When you have this, you'll have two choices, pay up or call in the police. The possible variations in circumstances are far too great for anyone here to advise you as to which is the best option, but an informal chat with the local high-tech crimes unit would be a good idea if there is one. (My guess is the police won't be interested but you don't get if you don't ask.)

With respect to proving the transfer was fraudulent, provided the emails are all archived, the IP address data in the headers might be sufficient to prove fraud - I'm not certain but perhaps someone else can comment.

Kaled.

StoutFiles

6:13 am on Aug 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



How much is the blackmail cost? I'd consider just paying it and moving on.

tangor

7:16 am on Aug 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Since a lawyer would most likely cost more than the bill your only possible legal redress would be to make a formal complaint to the police alleging theft, fraud, blackmail and hacking.

Beware using police force to deal with non-criminal acts. Could come back to bite the arse for misuse of the legal process.

OP, the mechanics put a lien against customer failure to pay for work done. And if they were happy to get that paltry dollar three eighty for their work just be happy, get a new domain and don't host with them again.

And don't make the same mistake again!

kaled

10:45 am on Aug 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Beware using police force to deal with non-criminal acts. Could come back to bite the arse for misuse of the legal process.

Complete rubbish unless you tell the police a pack of lies or live in a country where the police are paid a dollar-a-day or thereabouts. However, it was late when I posted and being tired I did miss something obvious and important...

It is unlikely you are the only victim of this scam, therefore, you need to find a few other victims WITHOUT giving the game away.

1) Identify the IP addresses used by the host.
2) Use reverse DNS lookup to find the domain names hosted on those servers.
3) Use Whois data to find which are "owned by" the host.
4) I believe there are tools out there that can report domain history so find out everything you can.

Alternatively, I think there are tools out there that can report all the domains owned by a single user/organisation - that might be a quicker approach.

If you can find other possible victims contact them by phone - avoid email.

If you can find other actual victims that are willing to make a complaint, this establishes a pattern of criminality and the police would be much more likely to investigate and that means ICANN are obliged to investigate too.

Also, scumbags are typically arrogant and that makes them prone to making stupid mistakes along the lines of self-incrimination PROVIDED you do nothing to tip them off! i.e. play the desperate and hard-up sucker, don't play the hard-nosed amateur lawyer or whatever.

Kaled.

leshouches

11:56 am on Aug 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



it was the new hosting company. when i was with the first one, they had correctly put me down as the registrant and admin contact.
is there any way ICANN will help me or investigate? My understanding is that if my ROR (registry of record) doesn't help me as they should, then ICANN can pressure them to do so?

leshouches

12:12 pm on Aug 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



the cost of the "ranson" is over £2000 for completely useless web site work. i'd rather pay a lawyer, on principle,rather than fall victim to their blackmail.
can anyone explain to me how to do a reverse dns look up to find details of other domains they own. i imagine they have done this to other people and it might be worth me calling them.

kaled

1:32 pm on Aug 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Oddly, the "usefulness" of the website work is of no importance legally. From a legal point of view the issues are...

1) Did they do the work that was requested/contracted?
2) Was the work that was done of a quality that could be reasonably expected?
3) Is the price being charged that which was agreed?
OR
4) If an hourly/daily rate was agreed, is the price reasonable for the work done?

If you google something like reverse dns lookup you are bound to find something useful.

Whilst fighting is always my first instinct, a wise man always walks away from fights that cannot be won so if you see no way to win, consider walking away and starting again with a new domain name but absolutely don't hand over money without being certain that you get your domain name back.

Also bear in mind that, irrespective of the status of the domain name, you should own the copyright on designs and content that you have created so the hosts cannot legally use that material.

Kaled.

Disco Legend Zeke

12:40 pm on Sep 1, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



fastet reverse lookup:

start a command prompt in windows

type nslookup <enter>

type in the ip address, and it will show you the associated domain.

you can type in domain name and get address, or address and get domain name. you can also query various servers.

you might find ownership records at [networksolutions.com...]

but if "whois privacy" is invoked, you will not see the ownership information, although you can figure out a lot by looking at the DNS server.

use ^C or "quit" to exit nslookup (or just close command window)

Another useful tool is (again at the command prompt)
TRACERT [address]

this will list all the nodes on the path to whatever address you put in.

for future reference, always pay by credit card so you can dispute faulty work. Try and negotiate the changes in the work so that it is to your satisfaction. But i agree, get it in an email from them that they will return the domain to you.

I also agree staying away from the police is probably worthwhile unless this is one of those real scammers.

On the other hand, small claims court in most juristictions requires no lawyer and can award money damages.

mack

12:47 pm on Sep 1, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Is the domain name the name of your company?

Mack.